Princeton Tec Apex LED Headlamp

[Vader]

:) Thanks :)

[randojl]

That's an interesting post, comparing the two lights. At a distance, did the spread of the two seem similar?

In response to this excellent question, which I did not address with rigor while in a real cave, I took an Apex and my Nova 3 into the backyard tonight and alternated shining them at my house from about 60 feet (about 20 meters). This was done with the Nova on "high" and the Apex 3W LED on "high." To first order, there's frankly not that much difference. Taking a closer look, the Apex focuses more light into a tighter cone, which is surrounded by a dark annulus and then some diffused light at the periphery. The Nova has about the same center beam spread but with no dark annulus -- it surrounds the bright center evenly with diffused light.

How much difference would this make in a cave? Well, we didn't notice it yesterday. That dark ring from the Apex might make it more important to keep the light pointed where you're looking, while the Nova's pattern might be more forgiving, but I'm probably reaching on this point.

[caver456]

Got an apex last Saturday after reading some of the reviews here (thanks for posting them), went caving Sunday. Small cave, about 3hrs in the cave, with dry crawl and some squeeze in grabby marble. The light was amazing! Lo-power on the small leds was brighter than most folks' lights and was brighter than I was used to as a primary. The cave was so small that there was not much chance to appreciate the hi-beam though I did show it off a few times.

The only problem I noticed after getting out was that the covers/bezels on the 4 leds on the sides get scuffed too easily. They don't have much protection, especially on squeezes. Definitely not a problem after one short trip (the scuffs were barely noticeable, and I was trying to be more anal as this was a pretty close inspection) but after 5 more trips like this it could be a problem, smudging up the light quality and all. Does anyone know of a way to get spare bezels for the apex? They don't look replaceable, though I haven't tried yet.

[caver456]

Emailed the folks at Princeton Tec - there are no replacement bezels/covers, but they say significant scuffing of the bezels to the point of blurring or dimming the usable light is a fully covered warranty item. Hopefully if nobody abuses that, then they can keep that policy!

[Mike W]

It's not surprising that the 4 x 5mm LEDs on high setting has pleased people - as they're pulling more power than a Petzl Duo14 on medium setting !! It is an excellent main caving light, with the typical spread of 5mm LEDs. The spot beam is just that - for spotting - being too tight and uneven for a main light. It certainly is powerfull, on fresh batteries I actually clocked it at over 4 watts ! It has a sensible heat sink, but gobbles batteries on that setting.

As for disadvantages, yes the switch buttons are very fiddly, but the main drawback to me is the non-replaceable plastic front cover, which will rapidly become mud-crazed if my experience of similar lights is anything to go by.

It's probably not sensible to try and compare the Apex spotting beam with the Nova3's wide, even caving beam. You may not believe this but yes, the FX3 plug and small battery plug are different !! And a word of warning if splicing lamp leads - be very, very careful to get the polarity right, as I believe there is no reverse polarity protection. Except, that is, in the battery box itself ( which means, incidentally, that you can't charge NiMHs through the battery box socket ! ). I have my own Nova3 on a long lead, with the battery under my arm, and use both the SpeleoTechnics 'Nickel' battery, and a 3x18650 NiMH pack in the standard battery box. This rig stands up well to both caving and diving.

[potholer]

Interesting - I'd heard there was a diode in the empty 'flatpack' battery boxes, though the only experience I've had of the boxes was using them purely as cases for homebuild systems when I was in a rush and couldn't get hold of Petzl Zoom boxes in time. Given I reamed a hole straight through the connector for direct cable entry, the presence or absence of a diode didn't affect me.
I guess it would make sense to not have explicit polarity-protection in the Nova if you know the battery should always be the right way round - it's one less bit of complexity in the circuitry. I suppose there's a voltage/efficiency loss with having a diode there, but one that will just form a basic cost for using flatpacks (and homemade rechargeable packs).

[Mike W]

Yes, I'm torn between being glad that my expensive circuitry is being protected from my fumbling when I'm tired, and being annoyed that I can't make my own NiMH pack and charge it through the standard plug.

I'm tempted to replace the spade connectors inside the battery box with a Mamiya plug, which my pulse charger already has, and forswear the use of flatpacks (or any alkalines). Then I could hold my head high on environmental (and financial !) grounds. But then I think about remote expeditions ........

[potholer]

I guess there isn't room in the box for a flatpack *and* a pair of race-pack connectors - it's a pretty tight fit in there.
Though I guess it's pretty bad for battery life, it's always possible to have a 3xAA box with a PP3->race pack connector wired up to it, and churn through the AAs.
Or you *could* just buy another box for your flatpack...
(or a real expedition light... ;-) )

[randojl]

It's probably not sensible to try and compare the Apex spotting beam with the Nova3's wide, even caving beam.

OK, I'm not always sensible , but I really didn't see a lot of difference between them in spread or intensity. The Nova is better but not dramatically.

You may not believe this but yes, the FX3 plug and small battery plug are different !!

I confirmed this with another look at the catalogs... unfortunately.

I have my own Nova3 on a long lead, with the battery under my arm, and use both the SpeleoTechnics 'Nickel' battery, and a 3x18650 NiMH pack in the standard battery box.

Is this the same battery box that comes with the "flexi" model? If so, what happens when it fills with water?

[Mike W]

randojl, "Is this the same battery box that comes with the "flexi" model? If so, what happens when it fills with water?" - Yes, and after the trip you empty out any water ! Seriously though, if you remember, the original (non-sealed) NiCads and NiFes free-flooded happily, and they were pretty reliable. Modern rechargeables do need protection from crushing, of course.

If you try moving quickly over uneven ground, you may see what I mean about the Apex spot beam (but it has the 5mm LEDs for that, agreed).

[paul]

randojl, "Is this the same battery box that comes with the "flexi" model? If so, what happens when it fills with water?" - Yes, and after the trip you empty out any water ! Seriously though, if you remember, the original (non-sealed) NiCads and NiFes free-flooded happily, and they were pretty reliable. Modern rechargeables do need protection from crushing, of course.

I bought a Speleotechnics light with the 7 LED reflector and "Nickel" battery (mounted at rear of the helmet). I used it twice underground on averagely wet (for the UK!) trips without passing through any ducks or sumps, i.e., a bit of water splash possibly but definitely no immersion.

On the third trip the light failed. This was in a period of about 4 weeks altogether. At home I found that it was the battery (it was fully charged and only had 2 or so hours use on LEDs) at fault: no voltage.

I opened the battery box (which is not designed to be opened for drying as it was glued together) and found that there are 3 NiMH cells in there held with a little bit of glue and some plastic material around part of the inside of the containing box, in the middle where the two halves join.

The reason for failure was that two of the tabs soldered to the cells had rusted. On cell had come adrift from the other two as the glue failed and was rattling inside the box.

There are no diodes or other bits of electronics in the box. I bought a similar empty box to put AA cells in when on trips abroad.

[potholer]

In the boxes containing batteries, there's no need for a diode, since the battery connections are permanent, and the connector is polarised. It's only in the flatpack boxes that there's a chance of incorrect battery connection, and where reverse-voltage protection is possibly useful (for Nova users).

I imagine the diode also serves some purpose from preventing people accidentally putting a box containing a 4.5V alkaline pack onto their charger, with possible unfortunate consequences.

I guess the problem with a *nearly-sealed* box is that if water does enter, it doesn't leave very easily, and if/when the batteries get warm when charging, or kept indoors, corrosion can be fairly swift.
Cordless drill batteries can suffer similarly - not only are the cases not designed for drying out when damp inside, but sometimes the packing material acts like a sponge as well. The spot-welds on cell tags aren't exactly large, and it doesn't take much rust to destroy them.

[Mike W]

Thanks Paul, I'll keep an eye on the 'nearly sealed' ST 'Nickel' battery.

After a trip, all my battery cases sit on a ledge next to the stove. This is the warmest, driest place in the house, ( which is why the dog lies under it ! ). Seems to work well, even with old-style Bosch drill batteries ( the ones with cardboard insulation ! ).

Under extreme conditions, waterproof cases cause their own problems. On very deep dives, the case will sometimes implode violently, although free-flooding batteries tend to survive okay.

[bsignorelli]

Yeah, I get to use it this weekend

yay...I got to use the Apex this weekend on a long trip...15 hours into Fitton. Add to that about 2 hours of use from the day before (pit bouncing) plus about 45 minutes of use on the 430a hike from the cave to the car.

So thats like 17-18 hours of caving use on one set of Lithiums. I told Beth to not change the batteries and see how much longer they last on her next cave trip.

Anyways...that was an awesome run time on an awesome light.

What are the 4x5mmLEDs like for regular caving - how spread out is the beam?

I primarily used the 4high setting and it was very nice. It lit up my feet enough that I never found myself bobbing my head up and down. I didn't wish for the old carbide either except when we sat still and I'd wish for it to keep me warm. In crawls I used 4low and I used 3high to shoot across the big rooms.

The 3low and 4blink settings never get used.

I wound up using those lithiums because I never made it to the store to buy myself some rechargeables (and Beths were actually borrowed). I still think bang-for-buck the NiMHs will be the best bet unless you are cutting ounces from your pack for multiday trips.

This wasn't a muddy cave so I can't comment on getting your forehead all mucked up. As far as a replaceable bexel or whatnot...most current lamps don't have replaecable parts. The old school Petzls (zooms and duos and stuff) had parts but current Petzl's (the Myo XP), Silva's, PrincetonTec's, Black Diamonds, etc (Speleotechnique, Stenlight, etc?) don't have replaceable parts.

The buttons took me about 30 minutes to get comfy using them. Not a big deal to reach up and push the button to change settings (usually to 3high and then back to 4high) or to turn it off. Just like any new light, you have to get used to where the button is and what it feels like through your glove.

Oh and I like not having to cycle through all the settings. If its on 4high and I want 3high then its just one button. If I want it back on 4high then its another button. No more clicking and thinking to yourself - 3high, 3low, 4high, 4low, 4blink, dammit, 3 high, 3low, 4high, 4low. :)

Anyways...thats about all I have to say about the light. If you have anymore questions let me know. After a 15 hour trip I feel I put the light through its paces in generally big or crawling passage.

Bryan

[randojl]

Under extreme conditions, waterproof cases cause their own problems. On very deep dives, the case will sometimes implode violently, although free-flooding batteries tend to survive okay.

This post and several others here are helping me to realize that I'm missing a point. When a battery "free-floods," doesn't the water create a new circuit between the contacts? Even if we're diligent about drying the battery box afterward and avoid corrosion, doesn't operating immersed shorten battery life due to current flow through the water? If "free-flooding" works OK, why does Princeton Tec use an O-ring on the Apex battery compartment and claim it's watertight to -1m?

Note: I'm new to this forum -- please let me know if I should have started a new topic for this question.