Cavechat.org

tlong_geo wrote:

....you're not going to get a better suit "off the rack" than a Meander suit. Even without the Shazam, a $135 Meander suit is WAY better than a $130 or $140 Lost Creek suit. Plus I've recently noticed that LC cheaped-out on the butt patch. Their new suits don't have a patch sewn over the suit material, they just sew different color nylon on the butt which gives the appearance of a second layer of nylon.

I got a regular Meander suit a while back and I don't believe it has two layers on the butt either. Still, a very nice suit and it has softened up nicely. I was anti-cave suit at first because they all felt very stiff and just looked plain uncomfortable. I like it very much now.

tlong_geo wrote:If you bellycrawl much, you may come to regret putting that zipper in that suit. Every suit I've had with a zipper got holes worn in it over the zipper. Good 2" velcro is all you need; if you get it dirty, let it dry and simply scrape-off the mud. The key is to NOT get it dirty.

I disagree. I've been on plenty of trips where velcro-suits were shivering and holding their suit together by hand because a bit of mud was preventing their top from sealing back up.

I put two small globs of aquaseal (seamsealer, shoogoo, etc.) on my zippered cave suit, one on the outside flap of where each zipper sits in its closed position. This prevents the worn hole that you describe. Problem solved.

The only legitimate downside to zippers that I see is that they appear to add to the weight of the suit vs. velcro.

My next suit will most certainly have a zipper as well.

i had a lost creek cave suit and i had both a zipper and velcro. i also agree on your point about mud in the velcro, but i only had that problem a couple pf times in very muddy caves.

I use a B&C Wunderwear suit which uses velcro.
It is a GREAT suit and would highly recommend it.
Only had problems a couple of times with mud gumming up the velcro. I used a little water to get some of it off and that worked well.

In my experience the 2 inch wide velcro definately holds up better. Crawling doesn't seem to peel it open as easily as the smaller stuff. I'm careful to not pull it open with muddy gloves on. The velcro will wear and when it does, then your suit will hang open. Before that happens, replace it with new!

My partner Linda made my current suit...it's 1050 denier with shazam on the knees and elbows. She washed the material before she sewed it up and it softened it up some. Best suit I've ever had...and custom fit!

I have 2 B&C suits. One is 18 years old and the other is only 13. One has 2" velcro and the other has zipper and 1" velcro. I prefer the zipper in our Mo. mud. Before I go out, I paraffin/wax the zipper. The zipper makes it easier to attend to mother nature's callings and is more adjustable at the top to control heat.
On both, I used a razor blade to remove the knee pad pockets. I prefer using my own over my suit.

Both have been used hard. (Is there any easy Missouri caving)?
My first suit had a built in nylon hood that will help keep your body warmth in if needed, and I once needed it in 1992. Literally a life saver.

I periodically have to remove stray threads coming off the suits.

I think that nylon actually helps you thru crawls in that it doesn't stick to the mud like cotton coveralls.

Several friends complain about cave suits being too hot.

I cave regularly with cavers using cotton coveralls. Most complain about ripping after only a few months. Pretty expensive in the long run.
As for brand, if you can buy off the rack, you may be months ahead with some makers.
I've never closely examined Howie's but I'm pretty certain that my next one will come from him. In fact, I'm thinking of having a motorcycle riding suit made.
And one final note. I've found that cave suits, wet suits, belts, coveralls, jeans-- they all shrink as the years go by. :)
don
little egypt grotto

pebblepoint wrote:On both, I used a razor blade to remove the knee pad pockets. I prefer using my own over my suit.

Having the knee pad pockets is one of my favorite features of the B&C coveralls.
I love having knee pad material that runs from above my knees down to my ankles...

yeah. having both your knees and shins padded makes for a much nicer trip through tough caves. i forgot my pads on my last trip and my knees and shins are all beat up.

I've come to love my elbow pads almost as much as my kneepads; I used to use soccer shinguards with the hard plastic removed (it caused mucho holes in my sleeves) as elbow pads. I would pull them onto my forearms under my suit. As far as strapping kneepads over your suit, wouldn't that keep the suit from moving where it needs to, like when climbing?

It seems as if I've PO'd some zipper-lovers, but its been my experience that the narrow velcro on Lost Creek suits won't last (because its narrow and peels open when you do alot of crawling) and that exposure to clay/rock is what kills the zipper. I was a disbeliever at first (a TSA and 2 LC suits), but heavy 2" velcro will not come apart . . . its even difficult to pull apart with your bare hand when you want your suit open; you've just got to keep it clean. And you can put as much Shoo-Goo or Aquaseal as you want on the nylon over your zipper; it'll wear off with the nylon, just not as quickly. Granted, if you're not belly-crawling on bare rock, there's nothing to abrade the nylon, and if you're not cavin a couple days a week, of course your suit/zipper/whatever will last a long time. It's that nylon between the zipper and the rock that gets worn quickly. If you've seen someone holding their suit shut because the velcro was muddy, then that caver screwed-up by not taking care of their velcro. But hey, whatever works for you and whatever is comfortable and affordable for you, that's the way to go.

yes the wider velcro does work well, and as for pads over your cavesuit i have always put my pads on under it, or have placed pads in the pad pockets inside the cavesuit if they have these pockets which i beleive most do.

my lost creek suit is not even a year old and ther is a second layer of material on the seat, i really like this suit, it seems you can slide over anything like its is ice