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I have a history of some minor lower back problems. I'm generally healthy, fit, and capable of anything, but I do need to be smart about how I use my lower back.

Although I have read everything I can fidn on the subject, I'm also someone who has ZERO experience with vertical caving, so don't really know first-hand what works best in different situations.

My *guess* is that a rope-walker system would minimize stress on the lower back when compared to a frog system.

I am planning to attend a vertical intro class soon, and need to figure out what equipment I need to order.

Thanks for any info or suggestions.

You may get various opinions regarding your question. IMHO it depends...
Depends on you body type and build; strength; technique and style to start.
I use a rope-walker, frog and Mitchell system, doing miles of caving and SRT a year.

Having conducted numerous Vertical Section SRT classes, I've heard many folks complain that their rope-walker makes their lower back tired and/or hurt. 99.99% of the time that is due to the double bungee cord being to tight! The first thing Berta (my wife and Women’s record holder for 120 meter climb) does is have the student discard the bungee that comes with the rope-walker and she sets them up with a thinner diameter cord that is much “looserâ€

Echoing Tim's comments, you will definitely want to try out a climbing system before you buy one.

In the past, I had trouble with my lower back and have found that using a ropewalker climbing system that incorporates a petzl croll on the seat harness (like it would be rigged for a frog climbing system) helps reduce lower back pain. It also eliminates the need for a handled ascender while climbing.

One drawback is if the climb involves any kind of slope, you will need to disconnect the croll to cut down on drag.

Good luck.

John Hickman
Nashville, TN

It may help if you can describe to us the type of actions that you find painful. For instance if you find doing squats painful it is likely that a frog is not for you. That said I use a frog rig and I can't remember getting off rope with a saw back, legs and arms yes but not back.

A rope walker uses an action similar to climbing a ladder so if this causes pain .... well you get the idea.

I can't say much about Mitchell and Texas systems.

Have a look at http://www.caves.com/7ASCENT.pdf for an explanation of some of the other ascending systems so that you can see which one you think is most appropraite, then I'd try and track down some one that uses it and try it out. Also quite a few use common equipment so you may not be locked in to the one system although this may mean you have to buy extra bits later.

fuzzy-hair-man wrote: Also quite a few use common equipment so you may not be locked in to the one system although this may mean you have to buy extra bits later.

True except for the seat harness a "mountaineering type" seat harness won't work well with a "frog system" as the attachement point will be too high for efficiency in climbing (it can be done but it ain't pretty). You can however use a low attachment point seat harness with a "ropewalker" without problems.

Personally I find a properly tuned "frog system" to be more ergonomic than the "ropewalker". I started vertical caving with a ropewalker because that is what the people who taught me used. I later discovered the "frog". When frogging correctly a lot of your effort comes from the legs.

Before investing in a climbing system you need to think about what type of vertical caving you will be doing the most. IMHO "ropewalkers" are great for "deep pits" that are mostly "free drop" but "frogs" are better for "multi-drop" caves because you can cave between drops without having to remove your climbing system (or parts of your climbing system)

mgmills wrote:

fuzzy-hair-man wrote: Also quite a few use common equipment so you may not be locked in to the one system although this may mean you have to buy extra bits later.

True except for the seat harness a "mountaineering type" seat harness won't work well with a "frog system" as the attachement point will be too high for efficiency in climbing (it can be done but it ain't pretty). You can however use a low attachment point seat harness with a "ropewalker" without problems.

True, I forgot about that issue. Actually it's probably a good point as different harnesses might be able to assist with managing the lower back trouble... maybe I don't know

Thank you everyone (especially since I probably should have posted this in the vertical forum)

I received some good news from the instructor of the class with the Huntsville Grotto and all I will need for the class is a caving harness. They will allow me to use their equipment for the class so I will get the opportunity to experience some of the different systems before committing to buying one of them.