rechargable batteries?

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Re: rechargable batteries?

Postby Marduke » May 22, 2009 7:28 am

NZcaver wrote:
Marduke wrote:There are two types of Duracell Pre-Charged cells. The Made In Japan ones are rebranded Eneloops, commonly called "Duraloops". Performance vs Eneloops are therefore identical.

The Made in China ones are made by the same factory as the Rayovac Hybrids, and perform about the same as the Hybrids.

Very interesting! Has this information been reliably confirmed, or only rumor?

Out of curiousity, what's the mAh rating of the Eneloops (and "Duraloops")?


It's reliably confirmed as best as detective work and deductive reasoning will allow. There are very few factories that actually make LSD cells (at one time, there were only 3 in the world), and most brands were just rebrands from the same couple factories. Yuasa Delta makes the majority of non-Eneloop cells.

Eneloops are 2000mAh min, >=2100mAh typical. The added benefits of Eneloops which make them "premium" over other LSD cells is higher voltage under load (lower voltage sag), higher tolerance to over charge and over discharge (more robust), and longer life (more charge/discharge cycles).
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Re: rechargable batteries?

Postby Chads93GT » May 22, 2009 10:40 am

Oh yeah, I forgot, the guys on candlepower also said the duraloops were rad ;)
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Re: rechargable batteries?

Postby Marduke » May 22, 2009 1:19 pm

Chads93GT wrote:Oh yeah, I forgot, the guys on candlepower also said the duraloops were rad ;)


I would be one of them. 8122 post and counting over there.
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Re: rechargable batteries?

Postby Chads93GT » May 22, 2009 2:29 pm

Hah, well then, there you go!
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Re: rechargable batteries?

Postby Cave Cricket » May 28, 2009 6:50 pm

So, not knowing much of anything about batteries, could someone give me a brief education in simpleton language (batteries for dummies) on rechargeable NiMH batteries (or point me to a link where I can learn things without having to truly understand how batteries were made or need an engineering degree)? What does the 2000 (or whatever number) mAh really mean? I'm thinking those Eneloops sound kinda neat being able to use them right out of the box, but still recharge them. Plus, they're on sale right now through Thomas Distributing, but they're a smaller mAh rating than other rechargeable NiMH (not slow discharge)I have (AA and AAA).

I did just recently purchase that LaCrosse BC-900 charger (something like $36 I might add on sale through Thomas Distributing and reduced shipping when I bought some extra battery cases which I needed). I'm refreshing some of my old energizers which I think were trashed by the Energizer 15 minute recharger I was using - I kept loosing a couple a year completely. But, don't really know what the voltage readings and mAh readings mean, once refreshed. If lower numbers on some of those batteries (as indicated by the recharger), are they "bad" batteries and thus keep like numbers together from then on forward?

Also, that LaCrosse charger comes with adaptors to use your AA's as D or C cells? Is that really OK to do? Not that I really use D or C cells anymore - but maybe I can pull out my old Just Right and cave in bright light again (as opposed to my crappy Apex).

Finally, wanting to know....
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Re: rechargable batteries?

Postby Chads93GT » May 28, 2009 9:05 pm

ive been using the c cell adaptors in my baby's swing and other stuff that takes C batteries. the swing, we found, had 4 c cell energizer rechargeables in it (given to us by friends in nashville) so i have those, but now i can use other rechargeables in other things with the c cell adaptors. Granted you can just hang the AA's in the devices where the c batteries go. they are the same length, hehehe.

As for the mAh ratings, i will let someone who actually knows what they are talking about answer that. but in my limited experience so far, I have found that the more the mAh, the more power they hold, ie the mroe charge they have, so the mroe burn time you have.

i THINK
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Re: rechargable batteries?

Postby Marduke » May 28, 2009 9:46 pm

More mAh = more stored energy, but there is a BIG "but..." in this statement.

As with anything else, any company can print whatever they want on the label. That doesn't mean the cell is perform as advertised. Also, there is more to making a good battery than just the capacity. Things like robustness, higher voltage under load, low self discharge, lower internal resistance, etc. However, I won't go into all those at the moment unless someone really wants to know.

To save you time and effort, just get the Eneloops. Upon arrival, run a "Test" cycle in your BC-900 at 1A charge/500mA discharge. This will wake them up and top them off for use. After being used caving or for any other activity for a significant period, top them off at 700mA or 1A charge current. You do not have to wait until they are completely dead to recharge them. Experience in your various consumer electronics will tell you how often this is.
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Re: rechargable batteries?

Postby Chads93GT » May 28, 2009 10:48 pm

Hrmm. I always recharge/discharge my batteries on the 100/200 setting, as im in no hurry for them to be recharged. That is good right? ( i have the lacross too)
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Re: rechargable batteries?

Postby Marduke » May 28, 2009 11:19 pm

Chads93GT wrote:Hrmm. I always recharge/discharge my batteries on the 100/200 setting, as im in no hurry for them to be recharged. That is good right? ( i have the lacross too)


For NiMH cells, charging at 0.5C-1C is ideal. On the LaCrosse, the best setting for AA cells is 1A, or 1.8A if you are only charging two cells in the #1 and #4 slots. The 500mA or 700mA are ideal charge rates for most AAA cells.

Technical reason:
Charging at the higher current helps make the -dV signal of a fully charged cell more prominent, reducing the chances of a missed termination.
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Re: rechargable batteries?

Postby NZcaver » May 29, 2009 12:44 am

Marduke wrote:For NiMH cells, charging at 0.5C-1C is ideal. On the LaCrosse, the best setting for AA cells is 1A, or 1.8A if you are only charging two cells in the #1 and #4 slots. The 500mA or 700mA are ideal charge rates for most AAA cells.

Technical reason:
Charging at the higher current helps make the -dV signal of a fully charged cell more prominent, reducing the chances of a missed termination.

Thanks for the charging current advice. :grin:

I tried refreshing/reviving my Energizer 2300s and 2500s with my BC-900... yeah, right. :doh: Those batteries should come with a DNR label. :roll: The 2300s are almost usable, but the 2500s are done. They'll be taking their final journey soon... to the recycle bin at Best Buy.
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Re: rechargable batteries?

Postby Chads93GT » May 29, 2009 8:40 am

Marduke wrote:
Chads93GT wrote:Hrmm. I always recharge/discharge my batteries on the 100/200 setting, as im in no hurry for them to be recharged. That is good right? ( i have the lacross too)


For NiMH cells, charging at 0.5C-1C is ideal. On the LaCrosse, the best setting for AA cells is 1A, or 1.8A if you are only charging two cells in the #1 and #4 slots. The 500mA or 700mA are ideal charge rates for most AAA cells.

Technical reason:
Charging at the higher current helps make the -dV signal of a fully charged cell more prominent, reducing the chances of a missed termination.


I guess when I get home, I can set my cells to discharge on the 1000 mAh charge setting,w hich would be 500 mAh discharge right? Trying to remember, as im at work and my charger is at home.
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Re: rechargable batteries?

Postby Marduke » May 29, 2009 9:35 am

Chads93GT wrote:I guess when I get home, I can set my cells to discharge on the 1000 mAh charge setting,w hich would be 500 mAh discharge right? Trying to remember, as im at work and my charger is at home.


500mA (no "h"). When set to "Discharge" and "1000mA or 1A", it will discharge at 500mA, then charge to 1A.

You can do that, but there is typically no reason to fully discharge them prior to charge. If you believe they are <90% full, a regular charge will be just fine.
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Re: rechargable batteries?

Postby Cave Cricket » May 29, 2009 11:14 am

Yeah thanks - need to print this thread out so I have the info for the future.

So, here's an example. Been refreshing some of the energizer AAAs. Two are now full and here's the readings:

900 mAh AAA
0:48
027 mA
1.39 V
214 mAh

850mAh AAA
2:52
031 mA
1.48 V
715 mAh


So, I take it the Voltage side is what it's giving out right now (higher the voltage the better??)
The time, I get, no worries there.
I don't understand the mA side of it, the 027 and 031
I take the mAh side to mean the 900 mAh battery only has 214 mAh in storage capacity left and the 850mAh battery has only 715 mAh storage capacity left. Would this suggest that I toss (recycle - though I understand NiMH batteries are safe for the environment) the 900mAh battery?? Or only use it with batteries that have a similar storage capacity left?

Thanks again!
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Re: rechargable batteries?

Postby Marduke » May 29, 2009 11:33 am

Toss the 900. It's junk.

PS
The current listed is the trickle charge current. The capacity listed is the measured capacity on the last discharge cycle the batteries experienced.
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Re: rechargable batteries?

Postby Chads93GT » Jun 10, 2009 1:25 pm

I just bought 4 sets of duracell rechargeables, precharged, 2000 mah, MADE IN JAPAN...........with the white rings around the positive terminals on the top.

I have to note something, on the same rack were identical batteries by duracell, same package, black rings around the positive terminal, AND it said MADE IN CHINA!!!!!!

Im guessing i bought the Duraloop batteries ;)
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