Cavechat.org

Here's a list of caver owned companies that sell speleo gear with the owners name and nss#. Any new info would be greatly appreciated.

Chilli Heads - Kim B Smith - NSS#63293RE
Dirty Daves - Dave McRae - NSS#51358RE
Inner Mountain Outfitters(IMO) - Jeff and Nina Martin - NSS#41665FS, 41664SU
On Rope 1 - Bruce Smith - NSS#12458RE
Pigeon Mountain Industries (PMI) - Steve Hudson - NSS#11444RL
Que Ver(el speleo) - Doug Warner - NSS#41724RL
Seven Bends Gear - Jeff Uhl and Mike Artz - NSS#19309RE
Swaygo - Scott McCrea - NSS#40839RL

Could you provide a list of cave gear businesses that aren't owned by cavers? My first thought is that it would look like the list below:

caves.org used to have a bunch of business links, but they seem to have disappeared with the new format. Actually, they are still there under the Shop link, but can't be seen with the Firefox browser for some reason the web guys are trying to figure out.

John Lovaas wrote:Could you provide a list of cave gear businesses that aren't owned by cavers? My first thought is that it would look like the list below:

This made me laugh, pretty good.

Thanks for all the posts

Swaygo Gear
Gonzo Guano Gear
Dirty Dave's
Chilli Heads
WV Underground
Seven Bends Gear
Crawldaddies
Sten Light
El Speleo

These are the caver owned businesses I can think of at the moment. All of this is available at the caver owned retailers you already mentioned.

JB, you should make a list.

I'm surprised Bob & Bob aren't on your list.

http://4bobandbob.com/

And don't forget http://www.coffeecreekgear.com/

Scott McCrea wrote:Swaygo Gear
Gonzo Guano Gear
Dirty Dave's
Chilli Heads
WV Underground
Seven Bends Gear
Crawldaddies
Sten Light
El Speleo

These are the caver owned businesses I can think of at the moment. All of this is available at the caver owned retailers you already mentioned.

JB, you should make a list.

You forgot IMO (Inner Mountain Outfitters)

Did I miss BC Wunderwear? Or Lost Creek Packs (is it Seven Bends now?)?

Mr. Hubbell-

Perhaps you missed the humor in my post. You stated in your original post that you knew about all sorts of caving gear businesses(which probably means you know how to access their websites), but wanted to do business with a caver owned business.

Every caving gear business in the US is a one or two person/caver operation, and the gear they sell is cool. I'm unaware of any caving specific gear that isn't designed by cavers. My personal view on wetsuits, having worn out 25 years worth of them, is that you should buy a wetsuit from someone who earns a living making them. A wetsuit failure could cost you your life under the right conditions. I'd rather trust a professional.

As to the advertising? The only place on the planet where you'll see an advertisement for US caving gear businesses is the NSS News, the NSS website, and guidebooks for regional caving events. Niche businesses like these have to advertise- and the ad revenue is important for the NSS and regional caving events.

I imagine Walmart sells as much caving gear as they do climbing gear.

This is a bit tangential...however, supporting caver-owned businesses is like supporting your local town businesses. Yes, you can spend a buck on gas and drive to the big box on the other side of the village to save a dime. Or, you can support your local shop. That said, here's a freebee idea for a MBA degree: How many wannabe cavers/climbers/skiers does it take to buy gear in order to make good gear affordable to actual cavers/climbers/skiers? That is, what would be the true cost of a good Jansport pack to a serious hiker if it were not for all the "bookbag"Jansports sold in big box sttores that bring the cost per unit down so low? Would a good cave pack cost 50% less if hundreds more could be mass-merchandized through Sears or KMart? Ditto headlamps: could cavers, alone, afford the cost of Maglites if they weren't used in 101 other applications? What's the break point for that kind of merchandise that is of great value to a specific group but allows others to look "cool" by buying it?

PMI
Petzl