Cavechat.org

There is a new discussion on UKCaving.com about a potential problem with new (2013) Petzl Croll.

See http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=15112.msg196538

If I am reading correctly, it looks like the Crolls did not fail until they were loaded well above the rated maximum. Not sure why this would be an issue...

Trogman

trogman wrote:If I am reading correctly, it looks like the Crolls did not fail until they were loaded well above the rated maximum. Not sure why this would be an issue...

Trogman

Yes - that's what happened. I suppose it was thought there may have been a problem when someone saw the photos but hadn't yet translated the Italian text into English!

So this new toothed ascender, which is never my only point of attachment, when loaded well beyond beyond its rated force fails in such a way that it doesn't destroy the rope, which is always my only point of attachment.

I'm finally sold on buying the new 2013 Croll!

driggs wrote:So this new toothed ascender, which is never my only point of attachment, when loaded well beyond beyond its rated force fails in such a way that it doesn't destroy the rope, which is always my only point of attachment.

I'm finally sold on buying the new 2013 Croll!

Excellent observation Dave. The title of this thread, and the general conversation in other listservs suggests that Crolls failing by cracks in the shell and cams inverting is a big concern. Given that the old failure mode was to sever the rope, which is a catastrophic problem not only for the climber, but all of their teammates who are still waiting to climb, this seems like a huge design improvement.

What's more, it's possible that the ascender is still usable. If you can get the cam to go back down, maybe there is enough shape and strength left in the shell to gingerly support a load. Of course, this is assuming this improbable failure improbably occurs.

Even though it seems that instead of severing the rope the new Croll will break in other ways, I would have thought if the enough force was applied to the Croll to cause that damage while you were connected to it via your harness, you would be in a bad way anyway in terms of probable injury.

There has been some controversy over information on an Italian website. Here is Petzl's offiicial response:.

Following the recent publication of 2013 CROLL tests on an Italian website (http://www.sns-cai.it/item/test-sul-cro ... produzione), Petzl would like to remind users of the following facts:

· The new 2013 CROLL complies with the requirements of the EN567 standard when used with authorized ropes types (8-11mm). The CROLL withstands 5 consecutive static pulls of 4kN. During these tests the clamp was never pulled out.
· We have tested the new 2013 CROLL with a large selection of ropes in slow pull static testing. The forces at which the sheath of the rope tore were: 5kN for the 8mm, 6-7 kN on the other diameters.
· During product development and production, we have conducted many dynamic tests (shock load with a rigid mass near an anchor point and extreme destructive tests with a guided mass on worn out ropes of large diameter) -- in these tests the clamp was never pulled out and the sheath of the rope was torn.
· In normal use, the CROLL should never encounter such high forces, but it is critical that this (and all Petzl PPE) be used in accordance with the technical notice : http://www.petzl.com/files/all/technica ... -CROLL.pdf
· Petzl will contact the authors of these tests as soon as possible to exchange information.

(Posted on the OnRope1 website.)

Detailed Petzl response to SNS CAI web publication, posted April 20, 2013, regarding the new Petzl CROLL:

http://bit.ly/11lMVCz

A really good response from Petzl, IMO, above and beyond. They could have just said - "Look it meets the applicable standards, get over it." Instead they took the time to explain the how and why.

If you're going to read nothing else on the matter, be sure at least to check out the details of their response here (PDF warning): http://www.petzl.com/files/fckfiles/fil ... -13-EN.pdf