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Ive never seen a petzl rack except for in the movie Sanctum.
The Stop is an awful device.
killian wrote: im only 170 lbs wet i dont have the mass to need more than 3 maybe 4 bars on a used rope.
snoboy wrote:I'd echo what Mike says above, and add that if you are going to choose a rack, get anything but the Petzl Rack. I have one, and it's probably my least favourite device. Not enough friction, and heavy for what it is. The BMS micros are nice.
Scott McCrea wrote:killian wrote: im only 170 lbs wet i dont have the mass to need more than 3 maybe 4 bars on a used rope.
You're doing it wrong. Seriously, get with an experienced rack user. Someone that really understands how they work, not just some with experience. Experience does not always equal understanding.
Chads93GT wrote:Scott McCrea wrote:killian wrote: im only 170 lbs wet i dont have the mass to need more than 3 maybe 4 bars on a used rope.
You're doing it wrong. Seriously, get with an experienced rack user. Someone that really understands how they work, not just some with experience. Experience does not always equal understanding.
This. My buddy is 135 lbs and uses the 6 bar smc rack and uses 5-6 bars. If you are using 3-4 and struggling then you need to learn how to use the rack because you are doing something wrong.
Mike Hopley wrote:
The Petzl Stop is superior for multi-pitch caves with European-style "technical" rigging (thinner rope, and convenience rebelays set every 30 -- 50 metres or so). The advantages of the Stop are that it's lighter, more compact, quicker to thread, and easier/quicker when locking off or performing changeovers.
The Petzl Stop also features a "deadman's handle" designed as a safety backup. The safety benefit is debatable, but it can be convenient (e.g. at rebelays). It can also be annoying, as it's a pain to press in. Many cavers (like me) prefer a Petzl Simple, which lacks the autostop handle.
Nevertheless a rack will work okay in any cave, whereas bobbins (Stop & Simple) will be infuriating when you have 20 kg of rope to lift up...
A rack will give the smoothest abseil. An expertly-used Simple will be almost as smooth, and will give the best control (rapidly speed up or slow down on a whim). A Stop can be quite jerky, especially on thicker rope.
VRcaver wrote:The Stop is an awful device.
Why's that?
It works fine if used correctly in the contexts for which it is designed.
VRcaver wrote:But compared to a micro rack the stop is about the same size and weight, takes about the same amount of time to do changeovers, and lock offs are equally fast. If you have seen otherwise it is due to a difference in experience with the devices.
The Simple will not give the same range of ability to speed and slow as a rack. You get what you rig at the top of the drop and adjustments are simply the same as belaying, which is less than with a rack where you can also change friction mid-rappel.
Also consider that in the US there are many caves where the bobbins will not work on the available rope, even with the C wrap, due to the size or other rope conditions.
To those I add some significant ones: lack of ability to use a free hand during descent to help with obstacles, and pain and numbness in the hand from the lever on long vertical trips.
If some has a preference for a bobbin device, the Simple is just fine as you note. I think it is not quite as good as a micro rack, but it is vastly superior to a Stop.
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