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killian wrote:i feel like the petzl rack would be good for lots of diff drop lengths. maybe im wrong. didnt realize ppl got so protective over there decenders..lol
killian wrote:potholer i would like something i can drop a 80 footer as well as something i can drop long TAG drops with... i never really used a rack cuz i was a 8 man up till the time i did over 200 ft. that was the 1st time i used a rack.. maybe i just need time with them but i really dont like how heavy they r. not saying the stop is a feather or nething but the SMC rack i used has in my opinion overly heavy. i feel like the petzl rack would be good for lots of diff drop lengths. maybe im wrong. didnt realize ppl got so protective over there decenders..lol
scott i totally agree with ur statment Experience does not always equal understanding... i have lots of years on rope just not lots of years with a rack... just never used them.
Smells_Familiar wrote:You have found that a BMS micro provides more friction than a Petzl rack? Petzl's got 5 aluminum bars and a micro's only got 4, and they're stainless steel. Aluminum provides more friction than steel. Were you using two hyper bars or something? I'm just curious how you came to this conclusion.
gindling wrote:First descender I bought was a Petzl Stop...It does not like 11mm dirty rope.
Mike Hopley wrote:The Simple most certainly will give you the same range of speed (at least on normal length drops, not 200 m). The difference is that friction is controlled mainly by raising or lowering the hand (and also by how hard you grip the rope).
I'd rather have instant control in my fingertips, than adjust my speed by fiddling with bars. It's hard to fiddle with bars when you're looking down the pitch, scanning ahead for the next rebelay, as you run and jump off the wall. Rack bars don't come with proprioception; my right hand does.
The Simple works fine with (old, fuzzy) 11 mm rope. Are you telling me that people actually use thicker caving rope than that? Or is it the stiffness of the rope that makes it difficult?
I used a Stop to descend a 1000 metre deep cave; it worked fine. My hand wasn't painful or numb. Uncomfortable at times, but nothing more.
.I don't like the device, for the same reasons you mention, but let's not exaggerate the problem. The Stop works fine in the hands of people who know how to use it
VRcaver wrote:You do realize there are 3 methods of controlling friction with a rack? 1. Raising or lowering the hand
The simple has only the first method. Therefore not the same range of speed even on normal length drops.
Again, I think the Simple and micro rack are similar here. But clearly you have misconceptions about the micro rack ease of use.
"Works fine" versus "works great" are different measures. The stop is limited in its uses, inefficient compared to other devices, and causes pain that other devices don't. So, if all you have is a Stop, yes, that is fine. If you are comparing against the current state of the art, the Stop is an awful device.
killian wrote:im looking at getting a new descender. my father owns a petzl stop but i have never used it on nething but the tree out back. i think i could acqurie it for little or no money. im leaning more toward the petzl rack as i have seem and heard great things about it.. i was just wondering what everyones take on the 2 are? is the petzl stop good for long drops/mud or is the petzl rack just hard to go wrong with?
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