Cavechat.org

Hi guys, I'm am new to the forum, I'm Cristiano and I write from italy (sorry for my english, you are free to correct me).
I need some help with the choice of my headlamp, I've tried both the petzl duo 14led and the princeton tec apex, both have they pros and cons, the duo has a nice flood light but suck when it come to throw, on the other and the apex has a quite powerful zoom but the flood ligh isn't just bright enough, the duo as also a better duration wich is always nice to have.

In my area the cave type change a lot we go from a 0°C to 15°C an from completely dry to really wet caves (sometimes we came out of the cave completely wet, and sometimes we have to go completely into water) so it has to be a pretty tough lamp and it's necessary to be waterproof.

For the price I would prefer for it to be at maximum 180€ ~ 230$, but it would be better to keep it around 80-100€ ~ 100~130$

For the moment I'm considering the el speleo 1600 but there are not so many info on the internet, so any help on this is really appreciated.

Do you have any other suggestion?

PS: I've looked at spark st6 and zebralight h600 and they doesn't seem to be vary cave worthy, or at least for the cave I usually do the seem to have a too tight beam that in our caves is no good at all as we have a lot of concretions and collapses rock

PPS:I give you some link where to find some photos to understand where we go, unfortunately they are all in the 15°C dry caves, just click on the red dots to see the photos.

http://www.studicarsici.it/marco01/grot ... anova.html (click the dots in the second section)
http://www.studicarsici.it/marco04/ciastitajama.html
http://www.studicarsici.it/marco03/abissopoldo.html
http://www.studicarsici.it/marco02/ternovizza.html

Hi Cristiano. Welcome to the forum.

Thanks for sharing the links to your photos. Very nice!

Have you considered one of the UK-made Custom Duo inserts for the Petzl Duo?

I second NZ on The Custom Duo inserts. If you already have The Duo you can now get 400 lumens with the insert. These inserts are MUCH brighter and more efficient than the 14 . Plus The Duo is still one of the best lights around.

I'm just finishing off a similar-but-different twin beam Duo insert ( http://www.bisun.co.uk/duotwin_main.html )

Essentially, I suppose it's a Duo version of the inserts I've been doing for many years for in mining lamp headsets, but trying to make a universal insert giving the options of both very simple operation and full flexibility with independent beam control and on-the-fly blending.

Descriptions aren't my strong point, and I think it's rather simpler to use/set up than it might appear in what I wrote.
Will likely start production in a week or two.

potholer wrote:I'm just finishing off a similar-but-different twin beam Duo insert ( http://www.bisun.co.uk/duotwin_main.html )

Essentially, I suppose it's a Duo version of the inserts I've been doing for many years for in mining lamp headsets, but trying to make a universal insert giving the options of both very simple operation and full flexibility with independent beam control and on-the-fly blending.

Very tempting. Not as pretty to look at as the other duo inserts but I like the functionality. I see the spot and flood LEDs, but what is that above the spot? Can you give us an indication of price?

I have one of potholers early models. It still works just fine. I can vouch for his ability to build a good insert.

NZcaver wrote:Very tempting. Not as pretty to look at as the other duo inserts but I like the functionality.

It does look somewhat better when inside a closed light, but is very hard to photograph when inside without getting reflections and/or issues with light reflecting off scratches on a used front lens.

NZcaver wrote:I see the spot and flood LEDs, but what is that above the spot? Can you give us an indication of price?

The thing above the spot is the button for changing between the various modes (likely something most people will only do once or twice, but having a button in front makes it easier).

I hadn't finally decided on a price, but it is likely to be similar to John's Omni, around £75.

I think the duo suggestions are great. However, I will throw support behind the ST-6. The light (without the diffuser in), puts in a nice combination of flood/spot that I found very good for caving. It's very robust and those cells just go forever, I ran a 12 hour survey trip on a single cell. ~$140 shipped from sbflashlights with coupon sbhol (10%). This includes the spark, two xtar cells, the xtar charger, and a pocket clip.

Thank you for all your suggestion, but i do not own a duo, the one I used was borrowed from my grotto, so it becomes too expensive as the duo here costs 100€ (unfortunately, because of those custom duo kits, used duo are almost impossible to find) and the custom duo would be like 100€ for a total of 250$ so it is a little bit too expensive for me and i was looking for a more simple solution.

We havo also a guy who makes some pretty cool custom duo, here's the link if someone is interested:
http://www.mastrel.it/index.php?sel=4&lang=en

The st6 from the video i saw is not so good compare to both the normal duo and the apex, as it has a too tight angle with at least for me is not ideal as i need to see where i put my feet, where i will put my feet and also all the different ways i could use.

Spill angle is about 80 degrees, I think there's a post here about it. I never worried about placing my feet, I had plenty of light on all settings.

I've would prefer a 120 degree spill angle, cause 80 doesn't let me see with my peripheral vision which is useful when you jump from one big rock to another and you have low time to choose in which direction is easier to continue. Also with the st6 is not so easy to switch from flood to spot and that in big rooms is annoying because you can't see the roof nor the walls far from you

I think the spill/spot angles on the st6 are fine and I really dislike tight beams for most uses except the distance throw.
Anyway, the st6/sd6 combo has worked very well for me. Easily switchable between spot/flood /both with many levels between. Also I got both lights for under $200 on eBay.
Pics:

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w226 ... adb24e.jpg
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w226 ... 54e613.jpg

SleazyCriss wrote:80 doesn't let me see with my peripheral vision which is useful when you jump from one big rock to another and you have low time to choose in which direction is easier to continue.

Cristiano is obviously being chased through caves by legged, amphibious narwhals. Let's find the man a proper lamp

@caver john or anyone else with the st6

Do you have any cave photo with illuminated only by the st6? because from the videos and photo i've found the ray seems way tighter than the one of the apex or the duo.

And is it worth to use that combo (the price would be the same) when i've the maker of the el speleo 70miles far from me?

@GroundquestMSA

ahahah nice one, but from my experience and because of the way I cave I find really hard to move with low light on the sides
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-arzvlBYd_ac/T ... finale.jpg
This is another of our caves, and this kind of caves are the ones I like to have a very large beam, the floor is made of big wet rocks and sometimes have a nice view angle can save you from a broken leg imho.

SleazyCriss wrote:@caver john or anyone else with the st6

Do you have any cave photo with illuminated only by the st6? because from the videos and photo i've found the ray seems way tighter than the one of the apex or the duo.

And is it worth to use that combo (the price would be the same) when i've the maker of the el speleo 70miles far away

El speleo seems very nice for the price actually, the only dislike I have is the lack of spot/flood combo simultaneously.

The spot on the st6 is not tight at all. I will lOok for pics and post. Although not in cave, candlepower forums has great beam shots.