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Im new to this so be easy on me. I picked up the Petzl Trios E75 2UW Helmet/light combo from Karst sports. (quick ship by the way)
I need a secondary light for my lid, any suggestions?

Thanks for your time.

Indymonkey wrote:Im new to this so be easy on me. I picked up the Petzl Trios E75 2UW Helmet/light combo from Karst sports. (quick ship by the way)
I need a secondary light for my lid, any suggestions?

Thanks for your time.

You want something just as good as your primary. Afterall, if you lose it, or it shorts out, you need something just as good to get you out of the cave without stumbling around in the dark. Having a 300 lumen primary for example, and a 40 lumen backup light is just plain dumb, as you are used to running around on 300 lumens. Now for some reason you are without a primary and have to rely on 1 of your backups. Best hope its a good one. You dont want to be in that position.

Chad is ofcourse absolutely right, but there is a possible flip side to this worth mentioning, and an approach which others of us will possibly adopt. I generally carry (when I remember) a Fenix E01 as a backup as it keeps the weight down (its a tiny robust single AAA flashlight that gives enough light to get you out of the brown stuff and lasts for 22 hours). My main light runs on 4xAAs, so sometimes I carry a PT 4xAA plastic body dive light instead, as it makes a rather convenient holder for some spare cells, as well as being a backup in its own right. I guess it depends a fair bit on the nature of the trip, the degreee of confidence you have in you primary, whether you are confortable to cave on low light if required, and how nice (and kitted up) your caving chums are should the need arise.

Chads93GT wrote:You want something just as good as your primary.

I don't really agree with this. I have a Scurion primary and a Zebralight backup. The Zebralight is not as good as my primary, but is more than adequate to continue any cave trip and get back out safely.

Having a 300 lumen primary for example, and a 40 lumen backup light is just plain dumb, as you are used to running around on 300 lumens.

Just because you like to run around with 300 lumens doesn't mean your eyes can't adjust and that you can't cave safely with 40. That's equivalent to saying anyone that caves with 40 lumens is "dumb", which I don't think is accurate.

I'm a strong proponent of having a second light mounted to your helmet at all times, and this light should be capable of being a primary light even if it isn't used on a regular basis, but being capable of being a primary doesn't mean you need 2 Scurions or 2 Stens.

As far as which light is a good secondary, I'd go with something lightweight, rugged and capable of running on the same batteries as your primary. It's nice when you can standardize on one battery type, e.g. all 18650's or all AA's. Of course I'm not following my own advice here. I've been thinking about getting the Zebralight H600 and a battery holder so that I can standardize on 18650's.

Sorry Derek, but without 2 other 1500 lumen Scurions you're just an irresponsible caver. Don't expect to go on any trips with me.

Extremeophile wrote:

Chads93GT wrote:You want something just as good as your primary.

I don't really agree with this. I have a Scurion primary and a Zebralight backup. The Zebralight is not as good as my primary, but is more than adequate to continue any cave trip and get back out safely.

Having a 300 lumen primary for example, and a 40 lumen backup light is just plain dumb, as you are used to running around on 300 lumens.

Just because you like to run around with 300 lumens doesn't mean your eyes can't adjust and that you can't cave safely with 40. That's equivalent to saying anyone that caves with 40 lumens is "dumb", which I don't think is accurate.

I'm a strong proponent of having a second light mounted to your helmet at all times, and this light should be capable of being a primary light even if it isn't used on a regular basis, but being capable of being a primary doesn't mean you need 2 Scurions or 2 Stens.

As far as which light is a good secondary, I'd go with something lightweight, rugged and capable of running on the same batteries as your primary. It's nice when you can standardize on one battery type, e.g. all 18650's or all AA's. Of course I'm not following my own advice here. I've been thinking about getting the Zebralight H600 and a battery holder so that I can standardize on 18650's.

I sucked in English and grammar. You worded what I was tryin to say much more eloquently.

bif wrote:Chad is ofcourse absolutely right, but there is a possible flip side to this worth mentioning, and an approach which others of us will possibly adopt. I generally carry (when I remember) a Fenix E01 as a backup as it keeps the weight down (its a tiny robust single AAA flashlight that gives enough light to get you out of the brown stuff and lasts for 22 hours). My main light runs on 4xAAs, so sometimes I carry a PT 4xAA plastic body dive light instead, as it makes a rather convenient holder for some spare cells, as well as being a backup in its own right. I guess it depends a fair bit on the nature of the trip, the degreee of confidence you have in you primary, whether you are confortable to cave on low light if required, and how nice (and kitted up) your caving chums are should the need arise.

Come on Bif, I know you will break out a Rude sooner or later. I will say I like the idea of all your lights using the same battery source.

Don't drag me into this Jeff
I invariably try to carry as little weight as I can get away with, being inherently lazy. Probably not the responsible approach.

bif wrote:I invariably try to carry as little weight as I can get away with, being inherently lazy.

Second that. A good topic for another thread would be whether redundancy in battery sources, reliability and efficiency of LEDs, reliability and efficiency of batteries, etc. has made the minimum safe number of light sources drop from 3 to 2.

Back on the 40 lumen comment... in Lech I ran my Scurion on its lowest setting most of the time to extend battery life. This happens to be 44 lumens and I got a little over 6 days of use on one battery. Yes, I'd love to cruise around on 300 lumens, but even the Scurion isn't efficient enough to do this for 8 days without carrying a dozen batteries.

Agreed. Running you lamp as low as possible and maximising batteries is the pinnacle of good cave craft.

3 light sources. Over here that means you're either going diving, or that you want folk to think you are

One could make the argument that each party ought to have a couple of full-sized extra lights, and each caver within that party ought to have a single AAA flashlight on a neck tether.

I use a Princeton Tec Quad that sits above my Scurion. While not as bright, the Quad gives me enough light to still see to navigate. Unsure of what a quad pumps out lumen wise, but I like because its small enough to stay on my helmet all the time, but bright enough to do the job.

Derek, how do you put the Zerbra light on your helmet? The scurion head always seems to get in the way when it comes to other headlights on the helmet.

I pretty much always carry a Fenix E01 around my neck with my knife, and on long trips, often carry a Zebralight.

However, I have pretty high confidence in my main light since as far as the electronics/LEDs are concerned, it's effectively two independent blocks sharing a battery, each set of electronics has internal redundancy, and pretty much everything upstream of the electronics (battery pack/cable/switch) is sturdy and field-repairable/bodgeable with a penknife (and the switch isn't necessary for operation anyway).

I mounted a Fenix HP10 over my Duo 14.

In my backpack I carry a Princeton Tech Impact XL. It's a dive light, so I figure it's fairly tough and can survive sloshing around in river caves. 50 hours run time.

Those three are all AAs, which is nice.

I also like the Princeton Tech Attitude. 150 hours run time on AAAs.

I have lost a main light twice by falling and hitting my head so that has made it to the top of my list as the most likely way to lose a main light. If my backup is right there beside it then I might lose that in the impact too. I like to wear a small backup light by the elastic helmet mounting band around my neck. I consider this separate and almost equal to having the backup on the hat. If the main goes I can reach up to my neck and get enough light to recover and get a light out of my pack. Some of the small lights are very robust and will last a long time...just in case your pack gets away from you too. I just don't think my head is a good place to store needful things although I have taped stuff into the top of my helmet and carried food up there to get it warm.