Petzl Duo- upgrade halogen to LED

[Cody JW]

I have been trying to tell you all this for over a year. I have said this before that the fact that somebody out there is willing to develop a new LED module for a 20 year old light tells you all you need to know about that 20 year old light. Some of the younger cavers on this forum will not understand, I will give them a pass. I wonder how many of todays newer lights will have somebody develop and market current generation LEDS for those lights 20 years from now ???

[Extremeophile]

A friend recently borrowed my Custom Duo upgraded 1st generation lamp. He's fairly knowledgable about lighting systems and was concerned about running the Cree XP-G on high (260 lumens) for extended periods. On paper it's capable of putting out this many lumens for ~3 hours with a set of Eneloops, but I don't think there's any sort of thermal regulation that reduces the power to maintain a reasonable temp. Apparently the lamp started smoking after awhile (not sure how long). Anyone else have any experience with this?

When I do use it I generally expect to run it on medium (~130 lumens) for general caving, and use the high for spot-lighting domes and such, so heat dissipation may not be an issue. If this is a limitation though, it might be good to communicate it.

[Cody JW]

A friend recently borrowed my Custom Duo upgraded 1st generation lamp. He's fairly knowledgable about lighting systems and was concerned about running the Cree XP-G on high (260 lumens) for extended periods. On paper it's capable of putting out this many lumens for ~3 hours with a set of Eneloops, but I don't think there's any sort of thermal regulation that reduces the power to maintain a reasonable temp. Apparently the lamp started smoking after awhile (not sure how long). Anyone else have any experience with this?

When I do use it I generally expect to run it on medium (~130 lumens) for general caving, and use the high for spot-lighting domes and such, so heat dissipation may not be an issue. If this is a limitation though, it might be good to communicate it.

I understand that this insert is not going to allow this light to compete with a Sten or Scurion or other 300 plus dollar high output lights. A souped up Mustang will not compete with a Ferrari on a road course. I cannot think of any other lamp in the price range that will allow you to run at 200 plus lumens for extended periods of time like a Sten, Rude or Scurion . I am sure somebody will correct me if I am wrong and maybe I am. Keep in mind this is a 80 dollar insert, it will not compete with a 375 dollar light. It is a VERY nice option for somebody who does not have several hundred dollars to spend on a light that has a Duo sitting around collecting dust. Like you I use the high for temporary spot only, just like the high is designed for on other lights in that same price range. Bif reads this forum and I am sure he will chime in on the specifics of heat management .

[Caver John]

Spark st/sd series lights, @ $100, noted it's 20 more than the insert but...
Lots o light!

[Bama632]

Im looking for a headlamp for caving for around $100 any suggestions? P.S. new to caving and to this site.

[Marduke]

Im looking for a headlamp for caving for around $100 any suggestions? P.S. new to caving and to this site.

Used Duo off eBay and a Custom Duo full face insert should keep you under your budget. It's one of the best lights there is for the price

[Jeff Bartlett]

Im looking for a headlamp for caving for around $100 any suggestions? P.S. new to caving and to this site.

Princeton Tec Apex is absolutely your best bet. It's not perfect -- tremendously wet passage will test its less-than-stellar record of waterproofness -- but you can't beat its bang-for-buck in terms of light output, versatility, battery life and cost.

[MUD]

Im looking for a headlamp for caving for around $100 any suggestions? P.S. new to caving and to this site.

Used Duo off eBay and a Custom Duo full face insert should keep you under your budget. It's one of the best lights there is for the price

Im looking for a headlamp for caving for around $100 any suggestions? P.S. new to caving and to this site.

Princeton Tec Apex is absolutely your best bet. It's not perfect -- tremendously wet passage will test its less-than-stellar record of waterproofness -- but you can't beat its bang-for-buck in terms of light output, versatility, battery life and cost.

[Marduke]

Im looking for a headlamp for caving for around $100 any suggestions? P.S. new to caving and to this site.

Princeton Tec Apex is absolutely your best bet. It's not perfect -- tremendously wet passage will test its less-than-stellar record of waterproofness -- but you can't beat its bang-for-buck in terms of light output, versatility, battery life and cost.

They tend to last only about 1-2 years before you have either A) waterproofness issues, or B) electrical issues, or C) scratched optics, or D) broken strap clips on the battery pack.

Oh, and the battery life (really system efficacy) is about a 1/3 of something like an updated Duo or a Fenix.

Every person I cave with who (for whatever reason) replaces their Apex does so with an updated Duo (after having seen mine), or a Fenix.

Apex's were the best bang for the buck over 3 years ago, but no longer.

[bif]

A friend recently borrowed my Custom Duo upgraded 1st generation lamp. He's fairly knowledgable about lighting systems and was concerned about running the Cree XP-G on high (260 lumens) for extended periods. On paper it's capable of putting out this many lumens for ~3 hours with a set of Eneloops, but I don't think there's any sort of thermal regulation that reduces the power to maintain a reasonable temp. Apparently the lamp started smoking after awhile (not sure how long). Anyone else have any experience with this?

When I do use it I generally expect to run it on medium (~130 lumens) for general caving, and use the high for spot-lighting domes and such, so heat dissipation may not be an issue. If this is a limitation though, it might be good to communicate it.

Hi, I was also a little concerned about this (being a natural worrier). As a consequence, the higher power modules have always had a loud health warning (communicated on the website) regarding sustained use on the hghest setting. I have run them for extended periods, measuring the temperature and havn't managed to get them anywhere near the max manufacture temp for the LED, or to 'smoke'. The modules have a fair surface area of aluminium which is essential for high power LEDs, and they make a fairly good fist of dissipating the heat, even inside of the plastic lamp housing. Please tell your friend to give me a shout as this sort of feedback is really really important. I have no idea what aspect of the module could actually smoke, but it would be good to know. I guess that someone with some kind of module issue is inevitable sooner or later.

However, I've come to the conclusion that there is always going to be someone who wants to run their light full tilt regardless, so with this in mind (to save myself from the worry), I have now reined in the module powers, and where necessary have incorporated thermal protection (see the Gecko 700 for example) which will only allow the module temperature to get to a certain level before stepping back to a lower setting. This is as much about optimising LED efficiency (they are more efficient if at lower tempertures) as protecting against thermal damage. I going to try and fit some similar limiter to the throttle on my car, so that my wife can't keep driving the poor thing to death (she'll murder me if she reads this).

On a side note, be a little wary of second hand Duos. If they have had a hard life then there can be issues between the battery box, cable and the lamp. This said, I'm minded to think that cavers who have used one to death will invariably bin it rather than sell it anyway, so there is a good chance that anything for sell has been sat on a shelf and is probably fine.

Hope this helps. Have a nice Xmas guys.

[Cody JW]

Spark st/sd series lights, @ $100, noted it's 20 more than the insert but...
Lots o light!

Do not forget you have to put a battery in that thing and Oh Yea, you have to charge that battery. I do not think they come with battery and charger. Or you can feed it 123s $$$$. I am hard pressed to believe that with one bulb it has the same optics.It is my understanding you have to change the lens to change from a wide spread to a spot , with the custom duo you have both at the same time. 10 bucks for the 18650 and another 10 for the charger( 10 bucks sounds very cheap for a quality charger) you might want to bump that up to 120.00. For me there is just something about using eneloops and a La Crosse charger that I already own that just appeals to me. Also I know that the CD will also run off good ole fashioned AAs that you can find anywhere . Also Marduke, I could not agree with you more on the battery use of The Apex. That thing eats batteries first and ask questions later.

[Cody JW]

As a consequence, the higher power modules have always had a loud health warning (communicated on the website) regarding sustained use on the hghest setting. I have run them for extended periods, measu

I was thinking the same thing as the person who experienced smoke with the Custom Duo is someone who knows a lot about lights ?? This person must of missed that and the fact that many other lights in this price range (Apex, Fennix ect) are not designed to run on the high setting for extended periods.Must not of bothered to check your site before performing such a test. I will admit that there are many on this forum who know more than I , BUT I know a good one when I see one.

[Marduke]

I find that running the CD on the 350mA setting (either spot or focused flood) is good for 90% of my caving needs, and means one set of cells lasts an entire trip 9 times out of 10.

To get near the same brightness with an Apex would require two in-cave battery changes.

[Jeff Bartlett]

They tend to last only about 1-2 years before you have either A) waterproofness issues, or B) electrical issues, or C) scratched optics, or D) broken strap clips on the battery pack.
Oh, and the battery life (really system efficacy) is about a 1/3 of something like an updated Duo or a Fenix.

I don't disagree with any of these points -- and I use a Stenlight exclusively -- but we're comparing a $90 light (Apex) to a $200 light (Petzl Duo 5 is $109, plus the CustomDUO full-face ugrade is $92 in USD right now). That's not to mention Princeton Tec's lifetime warranty, of course.

Repeat: the CustomDUO upgrade ALONE, without a headlamp to put it into, costs more than a new Apex.
But you guys can pretty much keep your cheap plastic commodity-grade lamps anyway... I'll keep my Sten.

[Marduke]

They tend to last only about 1-2 years before you have either A) waterproofness issues, or B) electrical issues, or C) scratched optics, or D) broken strap clips on the battery pack.
Oh, and the battery life (really system efficacy) is about a 1/3 of something like an updated Duo or a Fenix.

I don't disagree with any of these points -- and I use a Stenlight exclusively -- but we're comparing a $90 light (Apex) to a $200 light (Petzl Duo 5 is $109, plus the CustomDUO full-face ugrade is $92 in USD right now). That's not to mention Princeton Tec's lifetime warranty, of course.

Repeat: the CustomDUO upgrade ALONE, without a headlamp to put it into, costs more than a new Apex.
But you guys can pretty much keep your cheap plastic commodity-grade lamps anyway... I'll keep my Sten.

You can get Duo's all day long on eBay for $5-30. Full face module is only $86. So complete price is not much more than an Apex, but well over twice the light.