Fenix hp-11 or Spark st-6 500cw

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Re: Fenix hp-11 or Spark st-6 500cw

Postby Caver John » Sep 29, 2011 7:20 am

Chads93GT wrote:I see no need for a sten light now. They are over priced. perhaps now that their R&D costs have been recouped, they should lower their prices, as they aint all that, and i have had plenty of friends with stens suffer major malfunctions that werent covered by a warranty.


I agree they are overpriced for the given technology/output. I always thought it was worth some of that price due to it's durability, cause I've never heard anyone having problems with a sten, until now.

+2 for spark


I will say this, if I could find a way to save enough for a rude Nora without it hurting too much,
I think I would be soo worth it. That thing is truly a dream!
Maybe tax time....
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Re: Fenix hp-11 or Spark st-6 500cw

Postby Cody JW » Sep 29, 2011 3:31 pm

I agree with Chad on The Sten. A nice light but now lacks output of newer similar priced or cheaper lights. I bet The Rude Nora will blow it out of the water. I too have seen several people who have had various troubles with Stens after minimal use. Common sense tells you not to spend that much on a light when LED tech changes as rapidly as it does. I have no regrets taking a Duo that I already own and putting a custom duo in it and with eneloops have a light that will have similar output as a Sten Premium ( over 300 lumens) for 75 bucks. All in a light that has demonstrated to me to be cave worthy for over 17 years. I like the Spark , looks like a great light for the money. The key for caving is to have a light with spot and glow at the same time. From the reports I have read the Spark will do that. The Custom Duo will do that. The Fennix will not and the Apex will not. With all the new reasonable priced lights out there now with high output that are durable for caving I think we are now in the golden age of sport lights. I can remember when the Wheat Lamp was the preferred caving light for over a decade. With current tech changing as rapidly as it does we will never see one light rule the roost for that long again.
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Re: Fenix hp-11 or Spark st-6 500cw

Postby rlboyce » Sep 29, 2011 6:09 pm

Idunno... I've heard significantly more good than bad about Stens. Also, compared to the price of a Rude.... the Sten IS cheap. :big grin: I'm not saying I'd fork out the money for a Sten, but I can say that I see the quality of them, just as I can see the quality of a Rude. I guess everyone has their own opinion though.
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Re: Fenix hp-11 or Spark st-6 500cw

Postby Chads93GT » Sep 29, 2011 8:29 pm

ITs just that everyone I personally know and have caved with has had problems with their stens in one way or another. I guess they have the same problem as any "battery pack with a cord" style headlamp. Time will tell with the spark and the zebra. I think ill buy a zebra too, a reward for this week of hell im working in NYC and Massachusetts.
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Re: Fenix hp-11 or Spark st-6 500cw

Postby jeffkruse » Sep 30, 2011 8:40 am

The cord is one of the ways the Rude Nora is better than the Sten.
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Re: Fenix hp-11 or Spark st-6 500cw

Postby trogman » Sep 30, 2011 9:22 am

About the Duo-I have had 3 of them develop the same issue, which is that the wire inside the head part broke. The break seems to be where it takes the sharp turn going into the head. Mind you, I have gotten probably 5+ years of use out of each of these lights before this happened. I have tried to repair them, with little success. So with these issues I would be reluctant to put a lot of money into an upgrade.

For the last 2 years or so, I have used a Premium Stenlight. I have only had one issue, which was essentially the same issue as that with the Duos, that being a break in the wire going into the head. But in the case of the Sten, it was very easy to repair. First, I repaired it by substituting my own wire and soldering it to the connector. Then, when that failed a few months later, I got a hold of the folks at Sten, and they sent me (free of charge) a replacement wire with the connector. All I had to do was open up the back, pull out the connector, and insert the new one. Very simple fix.

Like some of you, I too have been drooling over the Rude Nora. But I told my wife that the Sten would be my last headlamp, at least for a long, long time. Maybe by the time I get around to replacing my Sten, the Rude Nora will have dropped in price. A little improvement in the dollar-euro exchange rate wouldn't hurt either.

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Re: Fenix hp-11 or Spark st-6 500cw

Postby Cody JW » Sep 30, 2011 10:15 am

I have used the same Duo for 17 years in all kinds of caving conditions and never had the first flicker, all I have done is updated bulbs. I think I paid about 65 bucks for it then. The best 65 bucks I ever spent. I now have the same light busting out 340 lumens, love it.
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Re: Fenix hp-11 or Spark st-6 500cw

Postby DeanWiseman » Oct 2, 2011 5:00 pm

Well... got to put my ST-6 (500cw version) to the test in Ellison's Cave this weekend. :grin:

The GREAT news was that the sections of cave that I was able to visit, it was really really great. Easy to use with heavy rappelling gloves... plenty of light. :banana_yay:

The light was superb and plenty of power to illuminate the whole of the Warm-Up Pit. I could see floor features from the rig point. There are some REALLY nice, large, and very pretty flowstone features way over on the right... I'd sort of seen them, but I and others could really appreciate them in their glory. The light on high power was bright enough that a couple folks on the trip were trying to shoot photos--doubt it was quite enough fire power, but to the human eye it was crystal-clear. FYI, the waterfall there was essentially non-existent, as most of the Ecstasy Passage was bone-dry.

Bad news is that I've grown (older and perhaps a little less complaint in the chest :shrug: :shock: :oops: :sad: ), and I just couldn't force myself through final the tight spot to the Balcony. Too late, I realized there were a couple of ways I could bypass this pinch... but the party had moved on, and I didn't want to buffoon around solo and without people knowing what I was trying to do. So I didn't get to test the light in Fantastic Pit. :doh:

:sorry:

It's ironic that I've managed to assemble a really great kit... and so now my body is the "weak link."


-Dean
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Re: Fenix hp-11 or Spark st-6 500cw

Postby Chads93GT » Oct 2, 2011 5:16 pm

There are tight spots on the way to the Balcony? never been there, is there a reason why you didnt go up to the attic instead?
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Re: Fenix hp-11 or Spark st-6 500cw

Postby DeanWiseman » Oct 2, 2011 5:59 pm

Chads93GT wrote:There are tight spots on the way to the Balcony? never been there, is there a reason why you didnt go up to the attic instead?


If you had asked me on Friday, I would have said "no way." I honestly wonder if we didn't take some different route, because I'm still in disbelief. Having been down the pit six or seven times myself, it wasn't the end of the world. But this is the first time in my life that I've been thwarted by passage that I'd previously been through. Go figure.


As far as why the Balcony, my understanding is that because the rope is (or was originally) a 600-foot rope, it's just a tad too short for rigging the Attic. Ropes do shorten over time, and I think that the rope-owners preference is to have ample additional rope for BFR backup. Plus he doesn't like the rock flake the Attic bolts are inserted into. Plus, after more than 20 trips in Ellison's, he and his primary Ellison's caving partner like to mix it up. :shrug: When I was last in Ellison's they were making the traverse over to All-in-One while the team I was with was doing the Attic.


-Dean
Last edited by DeanWiseman on Oct 3, 2011 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fenix hp-11 or Spark st-6 500cw

Postby Chads93GT » Oct 2, 2011 6:31 pm

who knows man. I just know where that horrible canyon continues to the attic, ie the walking patha nd not the 30' nuisance drop, that there is a rope there that drops you down to the balcony area, but ive never been down there. Only been to ellisons twice. tis hard to go when youre 6-7 hours away ;)
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Re: Fenix hp-11 or Spark st-6 500cw

Postby Cody JW » Oct 2, 2011 8:31 pm

We had the same thing way back on my first trip to Fantastic, we had planned to do the attic but we only had a 600 foot rope, we had it laying out in a large field and measured it. At that time we realized we better play it safe and go to the Balcony. Prior to that trip I did a scout trip to the attic to check the rigging situation and I knew how much rope we would need up top, this was back before the current bolts were there. I remember the tight spot going out to the balcony, when going to the balcony my feet were out over the pit, we had our rope in a bag and it would not fit so we had to pull it through the tight spot and pile it on the balcony. I just remember that huge pile of rope on the balcony. I was not too disappointed, I said " once you climb 500 feet , what is another 80 ?" I just remembered frogging that bad boy , everybody else on my trip had ropewalkers. They were all twice as fast as me as I was the heaviest one in our group. Thank god I was young back then.
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Re: Fenix hp-11 or Spark st-6 500cw

Postby Extremeophile » Oct 3, 2011 10:23 am

rlboyce wrote:Idunno... I've heard significantly more good than bad about Stens.
I guess everyone has their own opinion though.

Yes. It's interesting to me that all the criticism I read here about Stens is coming from folks that don't own them. There seems to be a growing contingent of armchair cavers passing judgement on the faults of various headlamps without any first-hand experience. :doh:
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Re: Fenix hp-11 or Spark st-6 500cw

Postby rlboyce » Oct 3, 2011 11:27 am

LOL, yeah, sounds like a case of Stenvy if you ask me... :big grin:

In all seriousness, EVERY light has its weakness or even multiple weaknesses. I see nothing wrong with pointing out the weaknesses of a Sten, just as I see nothing wrong by doing the same thing with the Spark or any other light. In fact, I think it's good to point these out. Knowing each light's weakness leads to an informed decision when choosing a new light.

I agree though, excessive criticism of a light without any experience using it seems a little inappropriate. For the most part though, I'd like to think those posting in this discussion have contributed relatively informed statements. Hopefully we can keep it that way and keep the discussion strictly constructive.
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Re: Fenix hp-11 or Spark st-6 500cw

Postby DeanWiseman » Oct 3, 2011 1:22 pm

Chads93GT wrote:I just know where that horrible canyon continues to the attic, ie the walking path and not the 30' nuisance drop, that there is a rope there that drops you down to the balcony area, but ive never been down there. Only been to ellisons twice.


You know... now that you mention it, I wonder if we didn't go further along the level just at the top of that first nuisance drop. That would make perfect sense. :doh:

I'll be back down there pretty soon, I bet, and I'll check that route, too. Thanks for reminding me.


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