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Re: New Headlamp By Makers of HUrricane/Little Monkey?

PostPosted: Aug 14, 2011 6:05 pm
by rlboyce
LOL...

I must admit, I found it odd that there was no direct link to the FAQs, and equally odd that somehow someone found it. I was happy to get some details from it though.

Any comments on date of arrival or ball park price??? I will be buying a new headlamp in 3 weeks or so, and I want to know if I should hold off on my purchase in preference of the Rude Nora. Thanks.

Re: New Headlamp By Makers of HUrricane/Little Monkey?

PostPosted: Aug 14, 2011 6:25 pm
by bif
LukeM wrote: and if bif is basically copying the Scurion design, how else could he differentiate other than with price?


Just for the record, I have no intention of copying a Scurion. The Scurion is an excellent lamp, has many worthy features and has arguably been the Rolls Royce of caving lamps in recent years (to follow the car analogy theme). For sure they cost a lot of money but its not cheap to produce a low volume high end product. I imagine the guys at Scurion are very bored with taking stick for the price of their lamps. Ofcourse not everyone wants to drive a Rolls, so it seems a little pointless to get preoccupied with the cost.

While there is only so many ways to stick couple of LEDs into an effective heatsink, the Rude Nora will follow the Little Monkey and Hurricane as being a much more compact, light weight design. Operationally it will also be an entirely different format. To date, high end lamps (Little Monkey, Hurricane, Sten, Viper and Scurion) have all operated from high voltage li-ion battery packs (7.4 or 14.8v). In my opinion, the technology has reached a point where a new second generation of high end li-ion lamps is viable, capable of operating from lower voltage 3.7v li-ion battery packs (overcoming the inherent limitations of these lamps with respect to compatability with AA and other cells etc etc for expedition purposes etc). The potential to move the technology on and produce the next generation of lamps is fundamentally why I called time on the Little Monkey and Hurricane. I was also keen that the Nora should be designed to be dive proof, something that hasnt been achieved by the other high end lamps. We will have to wait and see how capable of this it proves to be.

Like any decent niche market manufacturer, my intention is that the Nora will be a superior product to what already exists, and push the technology further (which doesn't necessarily mean it has to cost more). For me, there wouldn't be any purpose in building lamps if someone else was producing a better lamp. Simply making a lower cost copy of another lamp to make some easy bucks just wouldnt get me out of bed in the morning. I could happily find something more constructive to do with my time. At the end of the day there are a lot of less complicated ways of making money, and I imagine that the guys at Sten or Scurion feel exactly the same.

Just to briefly cover another point, 2 XML LEDs running full tilt would produce around 2000 lumens, would be particularly inneficient, would draw 3 amps across each LED and generate a shed load of heat. It kind of goes without saying that both the lamp heatsink and battery pack would need to be massive to sustain this. I'm not sure that an argurment exists that will convince me that this is right for a caving lamp. High end lamps are already anti-sociably bright, but that's just an opinion.

Anyhow, I've banged on enough.
Later
Bif

Re: New Headlamp By Makers of HUrricane/Little Monkey?

PostPosted: Aug 14, 2011 6:43 pm
by bif
rlboyce wrote:LOL...

I must admit, I found it odd that there was no direct link to the FAQs, and equally odd that somehow someone found it. I was happy to get some details from it though.

Any comments on date of arrival or ball park price??? I will be buying a new headlamp in 3 weeks or so, and I want to know if I should hold off on my purchase in preference of the Rude Nora. Thanks.


I think Google must patrol the web and pick up on pages, even those not visibly linked up as yet. I'm a little embarrassed. FAQs on web sites are always very dull, so I was also playing around with injecting a bit of tongue in cheek humour. I'm sure that I'm not unique amongst cavers in having a slighty alternative and mildly warped perspective on the world.

I intend to get Rude Nora on website before Hidden Earth which is now only 4 weeks away, so Im aiming (with best intention) for about 2 weeks. Still scratching my head on the price. Had intended to spend some time over last 3 weeks thinking about this, but caving has a habit of taking over. As for holding off purchase, I can't really give you an unbias response on that.

Re: New Headlamp By Makers of HUrricane/Little Monkey?

PostPosted: Aug 14, 2011 7:07 pm
by rlboyce
I have a feeling you're in good company. I wouldn't sweat the premature release of the unrefined FAQs. Recognizing it, acknowledging it and correcting it are the main things.

Thanks for the wait estimate!! This is the information I was hoping for, and it appears I will be waiting for the reveal of your lamp before making a purchase decision.

I appreciate your dedication to making a solid and competitive headlamp!

Re: New Headlamp By Makers of HUrricane/Little Monkey?

PostPosted: Aug 15, 2011 12:50 am
by snoboy
bif wrote: At the end of the day there are a lot of less complicated ways of making money, and I imagine that the guys at Sten or Scurion feel exactly the same.


At first scan that read as "less complicated ways of making monkeys"... ! :clap: :clap:

Re: New Headlamp By Makers of HUrricane/Little Monkey?

PostPosted: Aug 15, 2011 1:46 pm
by potholer
LukeM wrote:My guess would be that driving the LEDs at a lower max current is a cost cutting measure allowing the use of cheaper components. Not a bad consideration at all, and if bif is basically copying the Scurion design, how else could he differentiate other than with price? I would say thermal considerations, but Scurion is managing that so perhaps not. Otherwise, why not drive at the max rated current as you said?

I guess a lot depends on what the target market actually is, and that involves issues such as worst-case runtime, expected-desired max brightness, and thermal/size/construction tradeoffs.

If the idea is to have a light that can use various power sources, having power levels for which demand seems fairly limited and which might flatten such sources in short order may seem of limited desirability.

I guess with a Scurion-style programmable user interface, it's possible to have ultrahigh levels without sacrificing sensible lower power levels or increasing complexity of use since the higher levels could be hidden from normal operation, but for more common click-through-the-levels interfaces, ultrahigh levels could be annoying to click through for people who rarely use them, and having little-used levels either requires wider power steps or more power steps if keeping sensible lower power levels is desired, as it is for many people.
Personally, I like having low (as in a few lumens) levels available in a light, not simply for maximising runtime on various power sources or helping in beam blending, but because often it's just nice to cave without excessive light - if I'm plodding up a deep entrance series in a vertical cave, I quite like being able to select a low flood level that's adequate for what I need to do, but not much more than that.

As for 'copying the scurion design', I'd wonder what there really is to copy, unless maybe someone copied the user interface or battery power projection?
Though one has to be wary of using excessive hindsight, a machined circular alloy casing with a plastic/glass lens on the front seems a pretty non-novel and relatively obvious approach for someone looking for an alloy case and low production volume, and the idea of twin-beam lights is fairly old-school as well.

Re: New Headlamp By Makers of HUrricane/Little Monkey?

PostPosted: Aug 22, 2011 6:08 pm
by BOB_HOWARD_13
Bif I'm going to burst!

Re: New Headlamp By Makers of HUrricane/Little Monkey?

PostPosted: Aug 23, 2011 11:45 am
by YuccaPatrol
Just be patient! We are almost there and Bif is almost certainly furiously assembling lights as fast as he can before the reveal. :grin:

Re: New Headlamp By Makers of HUrricane/Little Monkey?

PostPosted: Aug 24, 2011 8:15 pm
by Caver John
Price range please...??? I need to set a savings goal.

Re: New Headlamp By Makers of HUrricane/Little Monkey?

PostPosted: Aug 25, 2011 6:37 am
by bif
As it's so close, I've decided to release Nora at Hidden Earth 2011 (the UKs premier drinking event), weekend of 24th/25th Sept and will get details on website by Monday 26th (regardless of how bad the hangover turns out to be - I promise).

http://hidden-earth.org.uk/

Re: New Headlamp By Makers of HUrricane/Little Monkey?

PostPosted: Aug 25, 2011 10:24 am
by YuccaPatrol
So close???? That's a whole month away! But it will give me time to start sorting my bucket of pocket change and trading it in at the bank for headlamp money!

Re: New Headlamp By Makers of HUrricane/Little Monkey?

PostPosted: Aug 25, 2011 2:56 pm
by BOB_HOWARD_13
Oh NO! I have to wait another month!?!?!? but I want it noooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwww! :-)

Re: New Headlamp By Makers of HUrricane/Little Monkey?

PostPosted: Sep 2, 2011 5:45 pm
by brngk
Second that question. Quanta costa, about to graduate and get a pay bump

Re: New Headlamp By Makers of HUrricane/Little Monkey?

PostPosted: Sep 2, 2011 6:17 pm
by rlboyce
I definitely would expect it to cost as much or more than the last iteration (approximately $400). Even if it's unlikely significantly less at 75% the previous price... that's still quite a chunk of change. If you're willing to pay that kind of money, I'm sure the light will be worth it though.

Re: New Headlamp By Makers of HUrricane/Little Monkey?

PostPosted: Sep 3, 2011 6:31 am
by bif
I'm (as usual) struggling with / avoiding product pricing as I'm not super enthused about the selling side of things. Have been putting some thought into it, but will no doubt stick a wet finger in the air and come up with prices at the last possible minute. Ryan is probably thinking along the right sort of lines though.

Sorry about the Hidden Earth launch thing. Just seems to make good strategic sense to have something new for the event.