Ceiling Burner Questions

[jharman2]

I recently purchased a ceiling burner. I'm pretty happy with it ,especially for surveying. However, I've found it to be a little temperamental and wondered if anyone had any tips or advice.

1. I've been running miners grade carbide in it. I know this isn't ideal but I don't have a source for nut grade carbide until I can get to a cave meet. Does anyone know where I can get nut grade carbide? Also, I've been told by some European cavers that they run even larger industrial chunks in their generators. Any idea where I can get industrial carbide?

2. As dust accumulates in the generator from the reaction it covers up usable carbide. At this point if you even slightly bump the generator the flame goes out. Will putting the carbide in pantyhose take care of this? I was thinking about using some window screen to allow the dust to settle out while keeping the rocks intact.

3. I've been using the 21L tip. The 14L tip doesn't seem to put out enough light. Do most people agree with this?

4. I've heard of people melting the generators when using miners grade carbide. I've been monitoring mine pretty closely and it doesn't seem to be getting overly hot and certainly isn't melting. Does this mean I can turn up the drip rate? How do you know when you're on the edge of a meltdown? Should the flame be like a wide paintbrush or in a V shape coming out of the 21L tip?

I'd appreciate any other advice that anyone can offer. Thanks in advance!

[Anonymous_Coward]

I recently purchased a ceiling burner. I'm pretty happy with it ,especially for surveying. However, I've found it to be a little temperamental...

Hi there carbide caver,

Tempermental describes ceiling burners quite well. No matter what, there will be some tinkering required. I look at it this way. With carbide, you are guaranteed to have to fuss with your light during the cave trip. However, most problems can be fixed in cave with minimal tools. My Stenlight is virtually trouble-free. But when it does die in a cave, I have virtually no hope of repairing it.

Your number one problem is the miner's grade. Get some nut grade and many of your issues will disappear. I used to get my nut grade drums from IMO. Haven't bought one in about 7 years though, so check with them. If you want 100 pounds, you'll have to get it yourself from Georgia or maybe they would bring it out to the Convention for you. I don't think they can ship a drum anymore in this wonderful post-911 world we live in. For a while they were shipping smaller cans, but the hazmat shipping fees were pretty steep. Maybe they still offer this?

If you have to run miner's, then the pantyhose trick might help you some. In my experience miners grade runs really hot (too hot) for about an hour. Then it sucks. The nut grade gives you less surface area, so the reaction is more controlled and sustainable. If you're getting the bump-out, you probably have too much carbide or too much water in the carbide chamber. Try filling the carbide chamber halfway or less, and see what kind of results you get. Remember that carbide expands when spent.

I agree that the 21l tip is far superior to the 14l one. The flame should be as wide as possible. As the tip wears out (mostly from reaming) the flame will tighten into a V and finally into a skinny flame. Time to replace with a new tip.

Two things you may not have thought of:

1. Mark a line on the drip valve. My Ariane runs best at about one full turn. When you know exactly how far open the valve is, it allows you to fine tune. Running too hot? Back it off about a quarter turn. Not enough light? Increase by a quarter turn and see if that helps.

2. Get a shaker bag for your spent carbide. Meander used to make these, maybe they still do. Mine is homemade by a friend. It is basically a cordura bag with a Velcro closure. Inside, there is a smaller mesh bag halfway down. When you change carbide, dump everything into the mesh and shake. The rocks will stay there, the dust will go to the bottom. Pretty much like what you wanted to build inside the generator. The mesh also pulls away from the inside of the bag with Velcro, so you can dump out the spent after the trip. Besides recycling good rocks, this setup allows you to change carbide whenever the team takes a break, with no waste (instead of waiting until the last minute to get the most out of your charge). You can even do this anytime the generator starts to get clogged with too much dust.

Well, I could go on but this is enough for now. I hope this improves your carbide experience. It can be a beautiful thing.

[jharman2]

Andy,

Thanks for the advice! I'm pretty stoked to try the nut grade.

I actually marked the drip control while surveying with a sharpie so I could tell what position it was in. Why Petzl didn't do this from the factory blows my mind.

The shaker bag sounds REALLY slick. I'm going to give it a try.

Also, I'm considering making a low budget generator to stash in cave camp. That way I can bring in the head piece with a little carbide and dry cave suits and other items. Does anyone have a homemade generator design? It shouldn't be very hard to make one out of some PVC pipe.

[Phil Winkler]

John,

I've used my Petzyl/Fisma for years and here is how I modified the generator to use small carbide and react it all easily.

I got a brass piece of tubing about 5/8" in dia. and drilled small (1/8") holes in it along the entire length and circumference. I soldered it to the center of a jar lid that fit into the generator. This positioned the tube directly under the water dripper. This permits the water to first go the bottom of the carbide and react it from the bottom up. Put the pipe in place, fill with carbide and badda-bing!

I would routinely get 6-8 hrs of flame with this rig.

Does the explanation make sense?

[graveleye]

you might have to draw me a picher.

[jharman2]

I've used my Petzyl/Fisma for years and here is how I modified the generator to use small carbide and react it all easily.

I got a brass piece of tubing about 5/8" in dia. and drilled small (1/8") holes in it along the entire length and circumference. I soldered it to the center of a jar lid that fit into the generator. This positioned the tube directly under the water dripper. This permits the water to first go the bottom of the carbide and react it from the bottom up.

Thanks for the tip Phil! However, I think the Fisma generator must have been slightly different than the Airane. It sounds like the drip control was on the centerline of the generator. On the Airane it is on the outside radius. The Airane has a very similar tube to what you describe with small holes along the length. However, strangely the tube doesn't extend to the bottom of the carbide chamber which really baffles me.

[Phil Winkler]

I'd really look into extending it to the bottom. I made my mods over 30 years ago and the lamp still worked great until I gave it to somebody in Huntsville, I think.