What makes a light cave worthy? And Helmet Question??

[jsniffin]

What are the characteristics of a light that would be considered cave worthy?

I'm looking at wetter caves in the Arkansas area, and bought my girlfriend a HP10 and two HL20s. We also have our original 15$ Wal-mart energizer 6 led light and some old 4AA energizer/everready Incandescent lights for backups and some Army angle lights for... well hopefully we never need those.

I know the HP10 is cave worthy but I was wondering about the HL20 its 105 Lumens on high and lasts almost 2 hours on high off of one AA battery. I was wondering if anyone other than me has thought of the possibility of using this as a primary. I'm hoping to get a HP10 for myself but was wondering because the APEX is somewhere around 100 Lumens as well (I think 130) and only IPX4 where as all FENIX lights are IPX8 2m/30min

On to helmets .............

I found C.A.M.P. helmets on sale for 45$. This is the C.A.M.P. Armour. I was wondering if anyone has any experience with these?

Any help would be so greatly appreciated.

[Chads93GT]

IMO you want a primary light to be bright, reliable, and made zo you dont have to change the batteries all the time because it runs off 1 battery......

[jsniffin]

IMO you want a primary light to be bright, reliable, and made zo you dont have to change the batteries all the time because it runs off 1 battery......

Yeah that would be a pain.. but is that the only thing about the HL20? I'm planning on having two of them for back up lights for myself as well. So if the HL20 had away to make the battery last say... 8 hours (at 105 Lumens) would you use it as a Primary?

[Cody JW]

The HP-10 is cave worthy and should do you well. Apex OK as long as you keep it dry but uses batteries. Consider rechargeable batteries.

[Chads93GT]

I wouldnt use a 105 lumen light for a primary, no. The HP 10 is 50-70 b ucks depending on where you buy it, it lasts for 8.5 hours at 130 lumens and I go turbo all the time with 120 lumens. the only way that 105 lumen light would have a longer run time is a bigger battery pack

[commanderzoom]

The HP-10 is the like I've been looking at to replace my Apex's. It's brighter, has a longer run-time, and seems to be a lot more reliable judging by the reviews. Cheaper, too.


My $10-$20 Energizer lights have been more reliable than my $75 Apex's have been. Their light output is beyond crappy but they've never done me wrong when it comes to reliability. I can rely on them to light up a space just well to avoid obstacles and I can rely on them to turn on and off when I want them to, not when they want to. They've taken plenty of beatings with damage to their reliability. I plan on keeping them around as back-ups pretty much forever and will probably replace them with similar models when they die of old age. They're not my main back-ups but I'd feel safe it they were.

I have some Combi Roc Helmets that retail for around $50. I'm a klutz so I bash my head into things more often than most people. The helmets have taken a beating and my head's always come out just fine. I feel the impact but it doesn't hurt or give me a headache. I should mention one freak incident I witnessed involving one that could probably happen with any other brand of helmet. Mom mis-judged her distance and moved from hands and knee to standing a few feet too early. For some unknown reason she angled her neck so her head was laying toward her shoulder as she stood up. She smacked her head straight in the soda straw covered ceiling and a straw went through one of the vent holes and broke off. She didn't didn't even notice she had a soda straw hanging out of her helmet so I guess it went into the padding.

[jsniffin]

LOL Funny story.


I guess my real question is.. is the HL20 Good for a back up?? and What makes a light "Cave Worthy" as a personal opinion. I have in the passed used my Energizer (twice) as a primary light (and my only light) I was told before I went down that I should have at least three lights but he let us down that day. Someone we were with fell down a steep sloped shaft about 45-60 feet. We didn't know where it ended because we couldn't see that far. ...... When we came back up, he came over and said.... "I probably shouldn't have let you down there with one line a piece." whoops. So now I am a lot more alert for safety things. I now have a first aid kit.

Aside from what was mentioned above about the HL20 (light and battery length and the sort.) Is it durable enough? I assume that was my original question.
If someone can help me figure out my question I would be very happy. Or if people could just spill what they look for in a light and list what kind of lights they use :) I think that would help.

[Chads93GT]

just buy a fenix hp10 for a primary and be done with it. You will never have problems leaving it buried in your pile of wet muddy cave clothes for a week before you remember its in there. Most other lamps, the humidity would destroy it. its bright, and it lasts a long time on rechargeables (dont know about alkalines)

[jsniffin]

well thats the plan.

But is the HL20 durable enough to be use as a backup? I think its made of the same materials right?

[George Dasher]

What makes a cave light "cave worthy"?

I can't break it putting the batteries in it or getting it to the cave.

[jsniffin]

I can't break it putting the batteries in it or getting it to the cave.

I take it you broke one putting batteries in?

[Mudduck]

Personally when I buy a light that claims to be water proof, I fill a 5 gallon bucket with water, drop it in for a couple of days and see if it still works(for a start). Then I fling them around on my helmet in the yard for a while for impact testing. This may sounds a little nutty but everyone has their own standards. Those energizer lights are actually pretty reliable as long as they stay dry.( your not caving much if they do) Bottom line is you have to ask yourself is this a light I trust my life with?? Because thats exactly what your doing.

[Cody JW]

Personally when I buy a light that claims to be water proof, I fill a 5 gallon bucket with water, drop it in for a couple of days and see if it still works(for a start). Then I fling them around on my helmet in the yard for a while for impact testing. This may sounds a little nutty but everyone has their own standards. Those energizer lights are actually pretty reliable as long as they stay dry.( your not caving much if they do) Bottom line is you have to ask yourself is this a light I trust my life with?? Because thats exactly what your doing.

That sound like a great way to test a light BUT it makes me wonder why in years past we did not have a long line of dead cavers in caves back then. ALOT of hardcore caving got done in the past with justrite electric (not waterproof) Carbide (certainly not waterproof) and god only knows what else.I understand todays lights are much more complicated and the need for watertight is greater now than before. I also think it is nice to seek reliable lighting for caving safe BUT it makes me wonder if waterproof is such an issue how did all the caving in the past get done with carbide and other crude ( by todays standards) lights and no long line of fatalities?

[fuzzy-hair-man]

BUT it makes me wonder if waterproof is such an issue how did all the caving in the past get done with carbide and other crude ( by todays standards) lights and no long line of fatalities?

I'd say mostly waterproofing has become a bigger issue because of the electronics that are now going into these headlamps, an old Petzl Zoom would work well enough half full of water and similarly for the old oldham miner's headlamps as there wasn't really anything in there to go wrong even if it got wet. Wet and it might be a pain or not work so well but I don't think they died too often... Electronics and often it's the first exposure to a comparatively small amount of water that kills them and it's not as easy as opening up the head and tipping out the water to fix them.

<edit>
My club was thinking of getting the HL20s as backup lights, most lights Fenix make seem to be bomber and I'd say this is especially the case for torches / headlamps where the batteries and head are in the same unit (as with the HL20) as you have less cable glands, seals, battery boxes etc to go wrong. If the light output and battery life are OK for your use I'd say go for it. It also has the nice benefit that all your batteries are AA's which are cheap, and means you can use the same spares for backups and main lights.

Oh make sure you can live with the spot type beam though the flip up diffusers fenix have are garbage, we've used scotch tape on our HP10s with good success so similar should work for the HL20 as well.

Zebralights could also be another waterproof tough option but I seem to remember reports of some of the zebralight not being as waterproof as they would like, it was a while ago so I may well be wrong on that, the zebralight uses a reflector-less LED so there's a wide flood light rather than a spot, again the zebralight H50 uses AA's but it doesn't get the runtimes or brightness of the Fenix theres also the H51 which is closer to the fenix in brightness and runtimes but it's not the floody beam anymore (I haven't found beamshots for it).

[Cody JW]

A simple splash of water will put out a carbide, I used to cave with them back in the early 80s and it happened to me lots of times.Found myself without light in the middle of a low airspace bathtub . I broke out a trusty mini mag ( still use those as backups) to get me out so I could re light a carbide. Do not get me wrong , I use a HP-10 or Duo with modern bulbs and enjoy todays lights BUT it makes me wonder if all the electronics are suitable for caving.Never had a water issue with the HP-10 or with The Duo , for over 17 years with the same one.