Conservation Groups - Yay/Nay?

Topics and issues of interest to cavers which are not related to caving. No political or religious discussions, please.

Moderator: Moderators

Conservation Groups - Yay/Nay?

Postby tncaver » Feb 3, 2010 11:14 am

Conservation groups have helped to protect a lot of good things in the past. However, conservation groups now remind me of labor unions, in that once they
served a very useful purpose, yet today they may cause more hardship than good. Recently a conservation group stopped a windmill farm in West Virginia
from operating and expansion. Our country needs clean energy. Fortunately a compromise was worked out which allows the wind farm to continue operation
with limits on when and how they operate. I think the compromise was a good thing but if the conservation group had its way, the wind farm would have
ceased to operate entirely.

Drilling for oil and gas has been stopped all over the country and offshore by conservation groups. Nuclear reactor construction has been stopped by
conservation groups. Refinery construction has been stopped by conservation groups. All kinds of recreation has been stopped by conservation groups in our huge Western state area.

Today I read that a conservation group is attempting to stop the government from building a new four lane bypass for Highway 64 near the Ocooee (sp?)
River due to claims of habitat destruction, pollution from cars, etc. Currently Highway 64 is a two lane curvy road prone to landslides and follows the river.
Many big trucks are using that old highway, because currently I-40 is blocked near the NC/TN border by a huge landslide, Highway 441 is also blocked by a landslide. The new 4 lane would be farther from the river and carry more traffic safely. Obviously a new highway is needed to offer an alternate route, yet conservation groups are once again attempting to block a new road.

When does this end? Are these groups really doing any good or are they simply causing our country to stagnate? I'm sure they have good intentions when
they challenge these projects, but are these conservation challenges doing more harm than good? This same question applies to gating caves and stopping
all access to caves. Gating caves has caused bats to congregate into close quarters by the millions. Any time large groups of animals congregate in such
large groups and close quarters, they are courting disaster by making it easier for any kind of disease to very quickly wipe them out in mass. That is exactly
what is happening right now with the emergence of WNS. Restricting access not only halts the gathering of knowledge about the bats but also affects the
economy in the areas that caves are located.

Are conservation groups today simply trying to preserve their own existence when their existence has already served it's purpose? Are they doing more bad
than good? Think about it.
tncaver
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 2626
Joined: May 17, 2007 7:03 pm
  

Re: Conservation Groups - Yay/Nay?

Postby BrianC » Feb 3, 2010 12:56 pm

tn, I am all for conservation groups ! "We The People" is a statement that resonates in my mind whenever I look at a conservation group's philosophy and in turn its policy. Many times politics gets involved in conservation groups, bending the very structure " We The People" stands for in order to justify the groups existence.If a conservation group has benefit for all the people then it should be justified! Our caving friends obviously enjoy caves and protecting them for our benefit as well as all the peoples benefit! It doesn't hurt any of the people! Many protection groups have a different agenda. Many protection groups don't care if the people are affected by their agenda ! Extreme protection groups even go as far as to unjustly discriminate against "WE The People"by introducing bills that pass into laws discriminating against "WE The People"! Real cavers have given so much to true conservation from cleaning up and pointing out what destroying our environment does to " We The People" ! Cavers have been doing this for more than most of us can remember! It is our passion, but it has always been done for all people! Every time an extreme protection group bends the very policy that "WE The People" was created for, then the next protection policy becomes easier to obtain because the framework has already been laid out by the previous unjust policy! This is where I stand my ground! I respect someone's or groups feelings for creation, but in order for me to justify support it must first be good for all!
User avatar
BrianC
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 2061
Joined: Oct 2, 2006 2:34 pm
Location: up on this here mountain
  

Re: Conservation Groups - Yay/Nay?

Postby tncaver » Feb 3, 2010 1:04 pm

BrianC wrote:This is where I stand my ground! I respect someone's or groups feelings for creation, but in order for me to justify support it must first be good for all!


Precisely. Unfortunately, I think most conservation groups efforts no longer benefit "WE THE PEOPLE". Conservation groups have become nothing more than
SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS. Look what special interest groups have done to our government. Now they are doing it to the rest of the country, including
caving. What a mess they have created.
tncaver
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 2626
Joined: May 17, 2007 7:03 pm
  

Re: Conservation Groups - Yay/Nay?

Postby KENTO » Apr 19, 2010 1:23 pm

I believe we better be prepared to admit the NSS is a special interest group also....shall we hereby do the honorable thing and disband?
Tncaver in the same paragraph you mention I-40 being blocked by a rockslide you kind of decry a " conservation groups " opposition to a 4-lane being built along the Ocoee as if it would be less prone to rockslides. Carrying that further perhaps the 4-lane was intended go over the mountain in a more suitable plan and would you advocate we take I-40 up to Clingmans Dome and down off the length of Tri-Corner ridge in the Smokies National Park to prevent future rockslides?
My daddy was an IBEW union man , anyone here dare to blame him for the loss of jobs to cheap chinese labor courtesy of Wal-mart , Home Depot , etc. , enabled and abetted by us the bottom dollar american consumer?
I am not deaf to the pain in the ass that some citizens groups actions have for our society when all the consequences begin to come out in the wash , I have yet to cool off over the Center for Biological Diversity lawsuit over WNS , but I am glad that Conservation Groups have access to a judicial process that can protect my ass from over indulgent generation of Radioactive waste. And the Windfarm up near Spruce Knob might kill off the few bats that survive WNS as well as impact heavily on the migratory bird population that utilizes the Appalachians as a corridor , 75% of the worlds hawk , vulture , Owl populations disperse across it.
Meanwhile in the nearly vacant Texas/Oklahoma panhandle areas it has been estimated ,if scaled up and built , there is enough Wind Energy potential to power the entire Western Hemisphere. There is a hightech European energy consortium building up there right now , hmm , why not American ? , but I digress.
KENTO
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 138
Joined: Sep 9, 2005 10:48 pm
Location: Orange County, Indiana
NSS #: #18,986
Primary Grotto Affiliation: BloomingtonIndiana Grotto
  

Re: Conservation Groups - Yay/Nay?

Postby tncaver » Apr 19, 2010 4:08 pm

KENTO wrote:Meanwhile in the nearly vacant Texas/Oklahoma panhandle areas it has been estimated ,if scaled up and built , there is enough Wind Energy potential to power the entire Western Hemisphere.


Fewer birds and bats in the panhandle I hope. I'd much rather have those wind farms placed in less habitated areas where there are fewer birds and bats and people to be affected. What happened to the technology that is supposed to keep birds and bats away from wind farm?. Too costly? I'm just asking questions
because I don't know the answer.

Sorry to say this Kento, but I'm not fond of unions. Just look at Detroit for an example of the worst case scenerio that can happen for a union town. Unions deserve to exist of course, and they were needed at one time, but perhaps they went too far with their demands back in the day of record profits.
tncaver
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 2626
Joined: May 17, 2007 7:03 pm
  

Re: Conservation Groups - Yay/Nay?

Postby Teresa » Apr 22, 2010 12:13 am

I don't think you can generalize about conservation groups any more than you can generalize about unions. Both are about as good as the people who make them up.
Teresa
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 1413
Joined: Dec 31, 2005 9:06 pm
  


Return to Open Talk Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users