Gas prices...

[VACaver]

At the risk of sounding cheap, and after hearing other drivers bitch, I thought I'd post this reminder...

Spring is here and, along with the pollen count, gas prices are going up.

Gas is rapidly approaching 3 bucks a gallon in some areas. Think about that the next time you slip two or three dollars for gas to the driver who just hauled your butt on a cave trip.

Give me two bucks for gas after I just went through half a tank taking you caving? Guess who's NOT riding with me again.

[Evan G]

That sounds familiar, I've had a few like that!

Of course the way I look at it: I have a big truck and it cost 82 to 95 dollars fill the tank. If you can help great, if you can't ... be honest. I'm going caving anyways, I don't mind helping out cavers or newbies. If it wasn't for some grotto members generosity when I started out, I would have less caving memories. I'm thankful to them for that.

It does get tiring when the same old people do the same old thing, you know what I mean.

[VACaver]

I agree. If your financial situation only allows you to chip in a couple of bucks, that's fine...I understand.

My point is that people need to be realistic when it comes to chipping in for gas. The two or three bucks you gave years ago (and continue to give) doesn't cut it anymore.

[hunter]

Of course the way I look at it: I have a big truck and it cost 82 to 95 dollars fill the tank. If you can help great, if you can't ... be honest. I'm going caving anyways, I don't mind helping out cavers or newbies. If it wasn't for some grotto members generosity when I started out, I would have less caving memories. I'm thankful to them for that.

Very well put Evan. Since I frequently cave with poor students I tend to be somewhat lenient on gas. It's people who have plenty of money and want to calculate things down to the penny that bug me.

Actually my main irritation is a friend of mine who won't take gas money. He runs his F250 on grease but I figure I still owe him something since he has to collect it. So far I've had to stick with buying him a (deep fat fried) dinner every so often.

James

[Dane]

Yea, generally speaking I don't need help with gas money, (of course that may change after I do my taxes this w/e!!!), and I am going to the cave anyway, but if you insist, and I understand and appreciate folks that feel that way, you can buy me an adult beverage aftewards at the mexican joint!

(how did God know to put the caves next to Mexican joints? - it's a mystery that we may never understand!)

[LifeOnALine]

Average gas price for the UK is $7.20 a gallon.

Thankfully there's nowhere in Britain more than a few hundred miles from a cave, and we're all paid in uncut diamonds. The downside is that with our gas so cheap, the Govt are going to charge per mile for daring to use 'cars' on 'roads'.

(and you wonder why we're a depressing bunch...)

[Evan G]

Average gas price for the UK is $7.20 a gallon.

And when is the steam engine coming back in fashion? When they make a four wheel drive steam car, I'm so there!

http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=669

This link is just for fun:
http://tinyurl.com/2ae45h

[NZcaver]

I agree. If your financial situation only allows you to chip in a couple of bucks, that's fine...I understand.

My point is that people need to be realistic when it comes to chipping in for gas. The two or three bucks you gave years ago (and continue to give) doesn't cut it anymore.

Good point. I remember we had quite a discussion about this subject, way back here in 2005...

[Stridergdm]

Of course the way I look at it: I have a big truck and it cost 82 to 95 dollars fill the tank. If you can help great, if you can't ... be honest. I'm going caving anyways, I don't mind helping out cavers or newbies. If it wasn't for some grotto members generosity when I started out, I would have less caving memories. I'm thankful to them for that.

Very well put Evan. Since I frequently cave with poor students I tend to be somewhat lenient on gas. It's people who have plenty of money and want to calculate things down to the penny that bug me.

Actually my main irritation is a friend of mine who won't take gas money. He runs his F250 on grease but I figure I still owe him something since he has to collect it. So far I've had to stick with buying him a (deep fat fried) dinner every so often.

James

I tend to cave (and hike) with a lot of college students. I tend to insist on a few bucks for gas. (and don't forget oil changes, wear/tear, etc.)

But it's not so much I can't afford the gas. At this point it's as much about "educating them" to realize that "hey, this does cost money!" and "next time, the poor schleb may be a broke college student not a guy who's years out of college."

Hmm.. running on grease. Not bad. Pleasant smell from what I've heard.

[Cavemarine]

Well...Back when I was home (when I did most of my caving) I was always the broke one. But I was the only one with a car. so my buddies always called me "hey Bob! lets go caving man, Ill pay for the gas!"

Bobby

[Teresa]

And when is the steam engine coming back in fashion? When they make a four wheel drive steam car, I'm so there!

Look at the book "Train Wrecks" by Robert C. Reed. or google KATY Sept 15, 1896, Crush, Texas, and you will find out why steam cars are impractical.

You ram two high-pressure steam cars together on the interstate, and "he was found on the wreck, with his hand on the throttle/a-scalded to death by the steam." -- Vernon Dalhart-- The Wreck of the Old 97

Ever wonder why trains went from steam to diesel, when it takes 4 diesel units to have the tractive power of one steam loco? Safety and air pollution, that's why.

[Princess Butterfly]

There is still an old steam locomotive on the Cass Railway near OTR, one of the few left. It's a really nice ride if your up that way and want a relaxing weekend activity.

We won't go back to steam, but we may go back to coal. Several energy companies are working on Coal-to-Liquids plants (including mine) to turn coal into high grade fuels. We have the supply, there are more BTU's of energy in Illinois coal, then in all the oil in Iraq and Kuwait combined.

[Evan G]

Little known factoid:

The diesel engine was created to run on coal dust or peanut oil.

[Teresa]

In the mid 1970s, a fellow out of Pennsylvania was working on a Wankel style rotary engine using coal dust as the propellant for locomotives.

Madam Butterfly *|:-)--the problem, as you know, with Illinois coal is not getting the BTU out--or coal gasification, which has been around since WWI--but the sulfur. Solve the problem of getting sulfur out of Midwest bituminous, and the folks in the Middle East can drink their oil.

There are also a couple of niggly problems with coal mining--both health and safety, and environmental--too. Heard a piece on the radio that something like 4000 coal miners are retiring from one Appalachian company in the next two yearas, and they can't get anyone to go to work in the mines, and stay, despite salaries of $60,000-$120,000 per annum.

[Princess Butterfly]

Madam Butterfly *|:-)--the problem, as you know, with Illinois coal is not getting the BTU out--or coal gasification, which has been around since WWI--but the sulfur. Solve the problem of getting sulfur out of Midwest bituminous, and the folks in the Middle East can drink their oil.

There is a step in the CTL process to remove the sulfur from the coal and turn it into low sulfur diesel. Also, with federal governments institution of scrubber requirements by 2013, that may not be an issue much longer for coal fired power plants.

There are also a couple of niggly problems with coal mining--both health and safety, and environmental--too. Heard a piece on the radio that something like 4000 coal miners are retiring from one Appalachian company in the next two years, and they can't get anyone to go to work in the mines, and stay, despite salaries of $60,000-$120,000 per annum.

There are currently less lost time injuries in mining then there is in the fast food industry.

The average age at most mining companies is in the 50's, and although many of them are eligible to retire a lot of them haven't. Its like that all over the country, not just in Appalachia. And its not just coal either, gold and copper are in the same boat. Australia also faces potential issue with their aging workforce. There is an impending shortage and wages just keep going up.