Global Warming......

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Re: Global Warming......

Postby LukeM » Jan 12, 2012 3:26 pm

Chads93GT wrote:I would have believed the "Fact" that humans are warming the planet, if hundreds of scientists hadnt got caught forging and deleting data to twist the "conclusions" to persuade people that we are in fact warming the planet.


Chad, where are you getting you're news that you've completely missed all of the follow up information about "Climategate"? Unfortunately the eventual exoneration of those involved didn't get very much coverage.Read up on it if you're curious.

Eight committees investigated the allegations and published reports, finding no evidence of fraud or scientific misconduct.


Who's ignoring facts?

Do you honestly believe you know much about climate change science? I'll be the first to admit that I don't, and probably never will consider myself adept at understanding the staggering amount of data.

You say to follow the money. I've done it. The five largest companies on earth by revenue: Walmart, Exxon, Shell, BP, Sinopec (China Petroleum). Those 4 oil companies brought in $1.3 trillion in 2010. You really think scientists have more sway than these guys? Do you realize how our government operates these days? Scientists are the David in this situation.
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Re: Global Warming......

Postby Chads93GT » Jan 12, 2012 3:34 pm

Of course I dont know that much. I know what I have read, and I am always wanting to learn more. My problem is the scientists are being paid by.........who? their research is funded by.........who? What politicians stand to gain from global warming?

Was MIchael Mann's hockey stick graph ever found to be true? No............

Sorry, I love to save energy, recycle and be as clean (emissions wise) that I can, but I believe that we can warm the planet, just about as much as I believe that we can also cool it down and be the root cause of weather patterns. Too many climate scandals cast a shadow of doubt in my mind.
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Re: Global Warming......

Postby LukeM » Jan 12, 2012 3:53 pm

Chads93GT wrote:What politicians stand to gain from global warming?


That's a straw man. It's what they stand to gain (from oil companies) if they oppose legislation unfriendly to the oil industry. Oil companies contribute to campaigns in huge amounts, most of it going to republicans, who oddly enough are notorious for their fervent support of the oil industry. None of this even takes into account how politicians often end up with comfortable positions in industry after retiring, among other perks. If you want to talk about following the money, this is the epicenter of what we should be talking about. You'd rather talk about federal grants that add up to probably .001% of the revenues of the big players in this whole debate, who actually have funds left over and a shareholder mandate for advertising and buying influence.

I'm leaving out the media but don't think for a second that oil companies don't have money to buy influence in that arena either.
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Re: Global Warming......

Postby tncaver » Jan 12, 2012 4:00 pm

Extremeophile wrote:Fact: Humans are warming the planet.

Some choose to do nothing out of ignorance. Others acknowledge the facts but choose to do nothing out of selfishness or laziness. Some on this thread seem to have an agenda of wanting to spread ignorance, which is probably more damaging than apathy.


Some on this thread think they know everything, when in fact no one does.
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Re: Global Warming......

Postby LukeM » Jan 12, 2012 4:08 pm

TN, would you consider my post on the previous page about how we can react given that we as lay people are not at the heart of the science being done and cannot claim to fully understand it? Is there anything unreasonable about what I said? I'm curious to know what you and others think.
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Re: Global Warming......

Postby tncaver » Jan 12, 2012 4:41 pm

LukeM wrote:TN, would you consider my post on the previous page about how we can react given that we as lay people are not at the heart of the science being done and cannot claim to fully understand it? Is there anything unreasonable about what I said? I'm curious to know what you and others think.


I'll send you a PM.
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Re: Global Warming......

Postby BrianC » Jan 12, 2012 4:48 pm

Extremeophile wrote:
BrianC wrote:
Extremeophile wrote:Fact:

Sure, I'd like to have the freedom to pee in the swimming pool without restriction, but when everyone is doing it then there's going to be a problem, and you can't argue that pee in the pool is just part of the natural order.


If pee didn't have the salinity, it would not hurt you because for the most part, it is sterile! Once in a while someone's filter (kidney) didn't work and let stuff undesirable through. Most of us have settled on the truths about Global Warming, but like always, some continue to hold onto half truths and believe them as fact! :rofl:

Typical Libertarian attitude. First, deny peeing in the pool. Second, downplay the impact of peeing in the pool while still denying it. Third, admit to peeing in the pool but argue it's a good thing. But never ever change your behavior for the good of society because you've been peeing in the pool since forever and doing anything else would be inconvenient.


You forgot that peeing in the pool warms you up on cool mornings. Cold wet suits feel very comfortable after peeing in them too! Hey, pee is free! Now if we could just figure out how to use pee in the radiator to warm the room, we would not need the stinking power company anyway.
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Re: Global Warming......

Postby BrianC » Jan 12, 2012 5:00 pm

LukeM wrote:TN, would you consider my post on the previous page about how we can react given that we as lay people are not at the heart of the science being done and cannot claim to fully understand it? Is there anything unreasonable about what I said? I'm curious to know what you and others think.


Luke read this http://go.cornwallalliance.org/t/r/l/iduuuul/kttjdhuku/i/ and now you know!
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Re: Global Warming......

Postby tncaver » Jan 12, 2012 5:15 pm

A few thoughts here if you don't mind. Global warming has occurred numerous times in the past. Most of the past occurrences were most
likely not caused by man kind. Mother nature is fully capable of spewing numerous gases into the atmosphere due to a variety of reasons.

Frankly, what I see happening today is "weather extremes" and perhaps even "climate change". Right now the North regions of Alaska are experiencing extreme COLD and high snowfall. That does not sound like global warming, yet some areas of the planet may be experiencing hotter than normal weather in the Southern Hemisphere.

What does seem obvious to me is the extremes that have been occurring all over the planet in the last 10 years. It could be El Nino or
El Nina or perhaps it is just a normal cycle that earth goes through over and over again. Then again, it is also possible that mankind has contributed to climate change due due to the number of heat producing vehicles all over the planet.

I have seen a chart which shows average annual temperatures have gone up in the past 100 years which also corresponds with the industrialization of the world. Coincidence or causal? It is hard to tell in just one century.
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Re: Global Warming......

Postby LukeM » Jan 12, 2012 5:41 pm

BrianC wrote:
LukeM wrote:TN, would you consider my post on the previous page about how we can react given that we as lay people are not at the heart of the science being done and cannot claim to fully understand it? Is there anything unreasonable about what I said? I'm curious to know what you and others think.


Luke read this http://go.cornwallalliance.org/t/r/l/iduuuul/kttjdhuku/i/ and now you know!


Brian, in response to this I'm just going to tell you what I found when I "followed the money", as I'm sure you'd advocate.

Mr. Taylor, the author of that article is senior fellow for environment policy at the Heartland Institute. The Heartland Institute is a conservative think tank funded in part by none other than Exxon Mobil, among others like Phillip Morris. Who knows who else funds them, those are just a few that people have been able to figure out. These are companies that want to do harmful things so they pay the Heartland institute to "think tank" reasons for why they should be able to do them and then whisper those in the ears of politicians. One of their other notable actions is lobbying government in support of the idea that second hand smoke doesn't cause cancer. Real stand up guys here. Truly fighting the good cause out of nothing but their own sense of decency. More like scum of the earth. :down:
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Re: Global Warming......

Postby LukeM » Jan 12, 2012 5:46 pm

tncaver wrote:I have seen a chart which shows average annual temperatures have gone up in the past 100 years which also corresponds with the industrialization of the world. Coincidence or causal? It is hard to tell in just one century.


TN, that's just a small part of climate change science. Another very important aspect is the proven link between increased carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and an increase in temperature. This isn't just provable in theory, it's played out in historical data going back thousands and millions of years, measured in many different ways. One thing people tend to forget in discussing this is that a very small change in temperature (a few degrees worldwide) is actually big deal. During the last ice age temperatures globally were between just 5 and 8 degrees lower.
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Re: Global Warming......

Postby BrianC » Jan 12, 2012 7:16 pm

LukeM wrote:
BrianC wrote:
LukeM wrote:TN, would you consider my post on the previous page about how we can react given that we as lay people are not at the heart of the science being done and cannot claim to fully understand it? Is there anything unreasonable about what I said? I'm curious to know what you and others think.


Luke read this http://go.cornwallalliance.org/t/r/l/iduuuul/kttjdhuku/i/ and now you know!


Brian, in response to this I'm just going to tell you what I found when I "followed the money", as I'm sure you'd advocate.

Mr. Taylor, the author of that article is senior fellow for environment policy at the Heartland Institute. The Heartland Institute is a conservative think tank funded in part by none other than Exxon Mobil, among others like Phillip Morris. Who knows who else funds them, those are just a few that people have been able to figure out. These are companies that want to do harmful things so they pay the Heartland institute to "think tank" reasons for why they should be able to do them and then whisper those in the ears of politicians. One of their other notable actions is lobbying government in support of the idea that second hand smoke doesn't cause cancer. Real stand up guys here. Truly fighting the good cause out of nothing but their own sense of decency. More like scum of the earth. :down:


Again Luke, there seems to be a political reason not to believe in the science. If you look at all the science, somewhere in between could the truth be found? Possibly. I look at motives as you have, and I also look at the past, which by the way is probably a better indicator of what the future will bring. All in all, the future looks like nothing extreme will occur for at least a thousand years, during which the probability of another Ice Age looks more likely than any other scenario. Now, I am tired of the human global warming alarmists trying to create law that worsens the future wealth of every American. Conservation is one of my real concerns for our future generations being able, and allowed to see and feel the natural earth around us. I want my grandson and his family to experience what I have been blessed to be part of. Now, with many of the Evil extremists out there, that future would be out of the question. They want us to be allowed to see the wonderful earth, but only behind glass. Some of us will fight to keep these idiots away from that future.I can not make it any simpler than that! Little by little, I see that our educational system is creating robot thinkers out of our youth. The educational system is seducing our youth into believing that humans are bad. I am not sure who pissed in their cheerios, but there are people like me that will be around to set some issues straight. Most older folks that have lived their lives, could care less what happens to future generations, but Not me! I have a family upbringing and would like nothing more than future generations have values that believe in mankind.

The Outer Limits is really just a television show, not reality! :shhh:
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Re: Global Warming......

Postby Extremeophile » Jan 12, 2012 7:23 pm

You can't argue with stupid.
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Re: Global Warming......

Postby tncaver » Jan 12, 2012 8:00 pm

Paul's explanation below sums things up pretty well. :grin:
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Re: Global Warming......

Postby paul » Jan 13, 2012 7:42 am

It may be interesting to have a look at the UK's Meterological Office information on Climate Change page on the url=http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate-change for a bit of explanation.

You could say that they're making this up, but I doubt it.

"The Earth is warming faster than it has in the past thousand years, hence the term global warming. But climate change is a better description than global warming, as some areas may, in fact, cool. It also describes other effects like rising sea levels and more extreme weather."

The bottom line is that Global Warming, that is heating up of the planet, is an unarguable fact. The planet has become warmer than in recent history (The last decade was the warmest on record despite a major La Niña event, which temporarily cools the global climate system).

Gloabl Warmimg is not the same as Climate Change. "The Earth is warming faster than it has in the past thousand years, hence the term global warming. But climate change is a better description than global warming, as some areas may, in fact, cool. It also describes other effects like rising sea levels and more extreme weather." Climate Change is also a fact: the Climate is changing.

What is in dispute is whether Climate Change is due to mankind's actions and whether mankind can alter its behaviour to mitigate the changes to date and prevent future more damaging change or its a completely natural process and there's nothing we can do about it.
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