Global Warming......

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Re: Global Warming......

Postby tncaver » Dec 15, 2010 7:44 pm

BrianC wrote:A few years ago, a mummified mountain man was found on a glacial bank. The ice had melted to reveal this mummy. The mummy was stated to have died there thousands of years ago, and then covered by thousands of years of snow. So, this tells me that a few thousand years of snow melts, then a few thousand years of snow accumulates, and so on, and so on, ... Climate changes and changes and changes, get it?


I get it. However the changes have been quite extreme.
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Re: Global Warming......

Postby Mudduck » Dec 15, 2010 8:28 pm

tncaver wrote: I'm more intrigued by the number of volcanoes that have erupted this year.


Glad to see I'm not the only one paying attention to this. If the big one hits I guess hiding in a cave would be a bad idea. :big grin:
I think I can...I think I can...I think I can
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Re: Global Warming......

Postby wyandottecaver » Dec 15, 2010 8:58 pm

safer than hiding in a tree.....just make sure you have some bang to break out after the lava plug over the entrance cools :big grin:
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Re: Global Warming......

Postby BrianC » Jan 11, 2012 9:36 am

http://go.cornwallalliance.org/t/r/l/iduuuul/kttjdhuku/i/ So this info would suggest that we probably will not see ant significant global ocean rise or change in temperatures in what, 1000 years or so! Now if the global warming alarmists could read, they would see that they have no argument. Also, the cooling by a global freeze will happen before any change could be noticed.
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Re: Global Warming......

Postby LukeM » Jan 11, 2012 11:26 am

Since there's still a lot of controversy surrounding the global warming debate, and there likely will be for some time, I'd like to sum up my thoughts on the issue (inspired by a video I came across a few years ago). A lot of the science behind climate change is complicated and difficult even for climate scientists to understand, so what point is there in having a scientific debate among the general public? Why not have a debate that everyone can participate in? A philosophical debate.

Here are the possible scenarios that I propose could occur as we go into the future:

a) We react to global warming in the way that climate scientists would recommend AND man made global warming is occurring. Result: We've done what we can and will possibly turn things around in time to permit the continued existence of human life. Hooray!

b) We react to global warming in the way that scientists would recommend AND man made global warming isn't occurring. Result: We spend a whole lot of money on something that turned out to not be a concern BUT we end up with a robust green economy, more sustainable fuels, and an all around healthier planet. As a side benefit we now don't have to worry about pulling crap out from miles underground and burning it to power our lives.

c) We don't react to global warming in the way that's recommended AND man made global warming is occurring. Result: Catastrophic climate change resulting in massive flooding, storms, droughts, and an overall failure of the world's agriculture. Humans will suffer greatly, with at-risk populations being wiped out. Many species of animals die out. The stress on the world's resources likely causes wars. A lack of alternative fuel options and an apparent need to stop using fossil fuels leads to a massive energy crisis, throwing even first world countries into third world conditions.

d) We don't react to global warming in the way that's recommended AND man made global warming isn't occurring. Result: Everything is ok. We may have some climate change, but at least we're not causing it. We continue to use fossil fuels and eventually start running out, hopefully developing viable alternative fuels before this happens.

Now, we can only control one of the factors in this equation; we either react like it's real or we don't. The worst that happens if we do react is that we spend a bunch of money on developing new technologies, but end up with alternative fuels which we'll need pretty soon anyway the way oil resources are heading. We also end up with a strong non-war motivator for economic activity which we need anyway, and pollution is greatly reduced which we already know will have positive effects outside of the possible climate change benefits. The worst that happens if we don't react is that the world changes forever with massive die-offs or extinctions.

If there's anything I support taking a conservative approach toward it's how we treat the planet we live on. Hell, we can be as reckless as we want with our money if the alternative is treating the only biosphere we've got poorly. You think we have no idea how to prevent climate change? Imagine how much of an idea we'd have about how to reverse if it does occur. Some risks aren't worth taking. If you think you're sure about what's going to happen you're suffering from delusions of grandeur.
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Re: Global Warming......

Postby BrianC » Jan 12, 2012 9:30 am

Luke, some great ideas, but when faced with mandates that cost our economy way to much in monetary as well as livelihood costs, it is wrong! We will continue to derive solutions to fuel sources from certainly better resources than presently used. The problem is, when mandated, sources primarily from our current potential sources become to costly. The private companies currently researching alternatives will become healthier, and because profits generate better solutions than tax dollars wasted in governmental red tape. Lets face it, natural resources (solar,wind,natural gas etc.) will become readily available once the costs become reality to the average American. Government mandates will create a higher cost that potentially can create a larger gap between our countries low, middle , and higher income residents. Very simply, let our system work and the future will be brighter for everyone!
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Re: Global Warming......

Postby LukeM » Jan 12, 2012 9:52 am

Brian, my feeling is that sometimes private industry needs a boost to get things underway. When it comes to alternative sources of energy we are struggling with issues of economies of scale. Consumers need incentives to head in that direction so that production can get to the point where costs actually become reasonable. Otherwise we'll be waiting a very long time.

Let's face it - private industry is greed-based will always head in the direction of profit, and if consumers don't want to use sources of energy that are good for the planet, industry will never head in that direction. Capitalism has it's strong points, but caring about being green will never be one of them unless consumers demand it, which isn't happening on any large scale at this point, and even when consumers demand it corporations will only do enough to appease customers despite whether it actually is helping. This is the ultimate shortcoming of Libertarian ideals.
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Re: Global Warming......

Postby BrianC » Jan 12, 2012 10:15 am

LukeM wrote:

Let's face it - private industry is greed-based will always head in the direction of profit, and if consumers don't want to use sources of energy that are good for the planet, industry will never head in that direction. Capitalism has it's strong points, but caring about being green will never be one of them unless consumers demand it, which isn't happening on any large scale at this point, and even when consumers demand it corporations will only do enough to appease customers despite whether it actually is helping. This is the ultimate shortcoming of Libertarian ideals.


It looks to me that every American is looking at the environment for its sustainability just because the questions of concern are everywhere now. Many Americans are concerned only with where their next rent payment will come from, and the issue of environment can't fit in to their budget at all, (you can guess what party these folks fit into). Others have the resources to make a difference, and they do because it can produce income, and makes them feel good (what party do they fit?). Now your comment of shortcomings does fit what folks are left. Just saying.
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Re: Global Warming......

Postby LukeM » Jan 12, 2012 11:08 am

Those same people worrying about how to pay rent can afford food because staple crops are subsidized by the government. They probably also don't pay anything in taxes because of credits and being in a low bracket. Do you see where I'm going with this?

Buying a Prius is not what I'm talking about. That won't help. Sustainable subsidized energy sources are something everyone would have access to, and as for cost... end a war or two, cut a few unnecessary defense contracts, withhold a few bailouts, and all this and more is paid for. It's just a matter of priorities, and all the public divisiveness around this issue is manufactured by powerful special interests.

Sorry to get so political.
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Re: Global Warming......

Postby BrianC » Jan 12, 2012 11:44 am

Well, I did forget about one extremely large group, the Governmental employees,( included in this group are recipients of grant money) that will do what ever they are told, and believe what ever they are told about Global "War" ming. :rofl:
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Re: Global Warming......

Postby Chads93GT » Jan 12, 2012 2:22 pm

1 word. Climategate...........

follow the dollars. ITs one huge scam so politicians can make millions.
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Re: Global Warming......

Postby Extremeophile » Jan 12, 2012 2:30 pm

Fact: Humans are warming the planet.

Some choose to do nothing out of ignorance. Others acknowledge the facts but choose to do nothing out of selfishness or laziness. Some on this thread seem to have an agenda of wanting to spread ignorance, which is probably more damaging than apathy. What any of us "believe" regarding the facts does nothing to change the present situation, but may determine our future course. Unfortunately polls show that the general public is very divided on our role and responsibility in climate change, yet the scientific community is far less divided. Yes, there is some small probability that the world is flat, that the Sun and stars orbit the Earth, and that God is a Broncos fan; but for the well educated these debates have been settled. Likewise, the human role in climate change has long ago been settled.

Sure, I'd like to have the freedom to pee in the swimming pool without restriction, but when everyone is doing it then there's going to be a problem, and you can't argue that pee in the pool is just part of the natural order.
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Re: Global Warming......

Postby BrianC » Jan 12, 2012 2:47 pm

Extremeophile wrote:Fact:

Sure, I'd like to have the freedom to pee in the swimming pool without restriction, but when everyone is doing it then there's going to be a problem, and you can't argue that pee in the pool is just part of the natural order.


If pee didn't have the salinity, it would not hurt you because for the most part, it is sterile! Once in a while someone's filter (kidney) didn't work and let stuff undesirable through. Most of us have settled on the truths about Global Warming, but like always, some continue to hold onto half truths and believe them as fact! :rofl:
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Re: Global Warming......

Postby Chads93GT » Jan 12, 2012 2:53 pm

I would have believed the "Fact" that humans are warming the planet, if hundreds of scientists hadnt got caught forging and deleting data to twist the "conclusions" to persuade people that we are in fact warming the planet.

The Climategate scandal erupted on November 19, 2009, when a collection of email messages, data files and data processing programs were leaked from the University of East Anglia Climatic Research Unit (CRU) located in the UK, revealing scientific fraud and data manipulation by scientists concerning the Global Warming Theory. The scandal that the suffix –gate implies is the state of climate science over the past decade, revealed by more than a thousand emails, documents, and computer code sets between various prominent scientists. The released information is evidence of deceit by climate scientists, which was kept a secret or hidden from the public until the data was leaked from the CRU. The CRU's apparent obstruction of freedom-of-information requests, as revealed by the leaks, was only the tip of the iceberg. Climategate is said to have revealed the biggest scientific hoax in world history as the worst scandal of this generation.

Some people choose to ignore this fact as well.
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Re: Global Warming......

Postby Extremeophile » Jan 12, 2012 3:02 pm

BrianC wrote:
Extremeophile wrote:Fact:

Sure, I'd like to have the freedom to pee in the swimming pool without restriction, but when everyone is doing it then there's going to be a problem, and you can't argue that pee in the pool is just part of the natural order.


If pee didn't have the salinity, it would not hurt you because for the most part, it is sterile! Once in a while someone's filter (kidney) didn't work and let stuff undesirable through. Most of us have settled on the truths about Global Warming, but like always, some continue to hold onto half truths and believe them as fact! :rofl:

Typical Libertarian attitude. First, deny peeing in the pool. Second, downplay the impact of peeing in the pool while still denying it. Third, admit to peeing in the pool but argue it's a good thing. But never ever change your behavior for the good of society because you've been peeing in the pool since forever and doing anything else would be inconvenient.
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