Quick wifi question

[NZcaver]

...Still, at least in Italy (but as far as I know in most of Europe) is plainly illegally to listen to police and other emergency agencies communications. More, to use a radio transmitter/receiver you have to have a permit and stay within assigned frequencies...

Good to know. I have a ham radio friend in Switzerland who regularly uses his AR 3000 scanner, which picks up police, cellphones, etc. I never imagined other western European countries would be so restrictive with the use of radio receivers. Of course using a transmitter usually requires holding an appropriate license or otherwise being authorized by the nature of your work/duties - but that's the same in most countries.

So if I ever visit Italy with my ham radio handheld, perhaps I won't mention that it also functions as a wideband scanner...

[Tubo Longo]

So if I ever visit Italy with my ham radio handheld, perhaps I won't mention that it also functions as a wideband scanner...

I would better suggest to held it not in your hand, but deeply buried within your luggage.
Apart any jokes, I don't know what's the situation is in any European country, but my guess is that, also because of the way more stringent privacy laws, even the "picking up" could be quite illegal in many places.

Don't know however how this might exactly apply to Wi-Fi unencrypted signals There are similarities with the radio signal, but may be there isn't a specific law....

[RescueMan]

Have only had minor 2 viruses in 30 years of PC computing.

You must have started hammering away on an Apple I or a Radio Shack TRS80, since those were the only "personal computers" available in 1976. And you wouldn't have picked up any viruses on the ARPANET at that time, assuming you were even connected to the academic network.

The first IBM PC didn't hit the market until 1981. My mother bought one (at a University discount for about $3000) to do her doctoral dissertation.

In 1977, I was using the newfangled remote video computer terminals which allowed keyboard data entry and video screen output from mainframes. That sure beat the punchcard programming required on the IBM 360 when I did my first programming (Fortran IId) in 1968.

- Robert

[Teresa]

My brother had a Rockwell AIM-65 (big green numbers, little rubber feet, just like the calculators) in 1976, followed by one of the very first Apple II+ machines, on which I taught myself BASIC. During this same era (late 70s-early 80s) I dated a fellow with 7 (count 'em, 7) Trash-80s in his van-- One of the TRS-Is, and later a TRS-III ended up at my house on loan, after he got a TRS-100, one of the first 'laptop' computers.

No, I wasn't on ARPANET, but was quite active with the early computer BBS scene in my town. (BBS=Bulletin Board System: a neolithic Internet run locally by sysops, and usually hooked in somehow to worldwide FidoNet.)

[Wayne Harrison]

Actually, the Altair 8800 predated the Trash 80 by a year in the home computer market. It was offered in 1975. The first IBM PC came out in 1975. It was an IBM 5100 and predated the 5150 by six years.

My first computer was an Apple II + (the plus being 64K of memory instead of the standard 48K). I was on BBS's, too. The modem for my Apple II+ was a 150/300 baud, but then programs weren't that large back then.

[RescueMan]

Actually, the Altair 8800 predated the Trash 80 by a year in the home computer market. It was offered in 1975.

Though it was sold as a kit through Popular Electronics and it left the market pretty quickly.

The first IBM PC came out in 1975. It was an IBM 5100 and predated the 5150 by six years.

Actually, the 5100 was marketed as a "portable computer" for business use (at $10,000 it wasn't going to cut into the home market). The first official PC was the 1981 4.77 Mhz 8088 with 16 kB of RAM, a CGA monitor and keyboard. It was one HOT machine.

My first (used) PC was the IBM PS/2 model 25, built in one piece like the Apples.

- Robert

[hewhocaves]

since we've strted *topic drift*...

my first computer was a Tandy 1000. We splurged and got it with 128K. A few years later I was tasked with expanding that memory up to (gasp!) 256K.

The first computer game I bought was Midway! by Avalon Hill. The game took up 48Kb and was written in BASIC. You could print out the code if you wanted to - it ran about 5 pages.

The computer store sold it to me for $49.99. Some things never change.

[bigalpha]

well, it's not really illegal. But, it's not really legal either. So, I guess it's a split. It's not like I hacked a satellite feed or anything. Their Internet is broadcast throughout the neighborhood. My computer just happens to pick it up.

Sorry, but read the other day in the news about a guy who was found guilty to illegally picking up Wi-Fi signals 'cause he was sitting in his car in a neighborhood and surfing the web from his laptop. Might miss some details, but looks like to me Wayne is correct and you miss some rather important details of the story. Or not..??

Well, I am not wardriving. I am sitting in my apartment picking up these stray signals flying my way from some people who don't know crap about wifi. Unless you are looking, you'll never find someone connected to your wifi.

Teresa -
Yes, I think that they disconnect it during the summer because there is nobody hanging out there. Really, that's the only thing I can think. There is no internet IP address, so their router cannot assign one to me. The IP addy I get is a 169. which is rarely used.

[graveleye]

interesting that the host usually has nothing to fear from the wi-fi mooch, lest he is downloading something illegal.. in that case, guess who is goign to get their door kicked in by the cops.. the host.

But the wi-fi "pirate" is actually opening his computer up to the host. I've been able to look right into peoples computers from mine once before I encrypted my network. I have an apartment complex nearby and apparently some troll for free hookup. I could have hacked them beyond belief. They would have had a harder time to get into my system.
Best bet is to encrypt and avoid the problem altogether.

[Tubo Longo]

well, it's not really illegal. But, it's not really legal either. So, I guess it's a split. It's not like I hacked a satellite feed or anything. Their Internet is broadcast throughout the neighborhood. My computer just happens to pick it up.

Sorry, but read the other day in the news about a guy who was found guilty to illegally picking up Wi-Fi signals 'cause he was sitting in his car in a neighborhood and surfing the web from his laptop. Might miss some details, but looks like to me Wayne is correct and you miss some rather important details of the story. Or not..??

Well, I am not wardriving. I am sitting in my apartment picking up these stray signals flying my way from some people who don't know crap about wifi. Unless you are looking, you'll never find someone connected to your wifi.

Yes bigalpa, you're at your desk. But, and if, is illegal (like in FL), my guess is that sitting in your car or in your couch won't make any difference. Also, I do trust you ain't doing nothing illegal, but read what graveleye wrote: even if you are a PC geek, does it worth? No business with Starbucks from my side, but have a coffee there and pick your sign at their shop for free without trouble. Just my cent

[Lava]

I'm of the opinion that if any unencrypted signal is infiltrating the walls of my home, I have a right to use it regardless of what the law says. I get about 7 or 8 wireless networks in my apartment, and for about two years used them as my only internet connection. But one by one they started encrypting so I bought my own connection a few months back.

[bigalpha]

Lava, I'm with you. If everyone was so worried about me using it, they'd do something about it.

The host dhcp server won't renew my IP addy. Any ideas?

[Dwight Livingston]

I'm of the opinion that if any unencrypted signal is infiltrating the walls of my home, I have a right to use it regardless of what the law says. I get about 7 or 8 wireless networks in my apartment, and for about two years used them as my only internet connection. But one by one they started encrypting so I bought my own connection a few months back.

I don't know the law on this, but it seems to me that, though you might have a right to use any incoming signals, you are broadcasting signals to your neighbor's router. Hard to use the connection without it being two way.

[NZcaver]

UPDATE -
I've just moved again, and (surprise surprise) I've found unencrypted signals from nearby WiFi routers are INVADING my apartment!!!

So I'm now engaged in electronic warfare - and I'm fighting back with everything I have!
(Like the little card in my laptop that's blasting out RF radiation, and allowing me to be on line right now...)


--> Translation - I am now happily "mooching" off the WiFi of others. If the connection goes away - and I can't find another - then I will pay for my own AND make it public this time (but still run a firewall on my own machine, of course). Sharing seems like the neighborly thing to do...

[cob]

not a lawyer, so take all of this with a ton of salt:

The airwaves are public domain (nobody owns them) and regulated by the Federal Communications Commission. To broadcast you need a license, to listen you don't. That is why nobody will ever get arrested for listening to a police scanner (in this country anyway)... the cops don't own the air waves, we do and we let them use them in the public interest (they have to get a license from the FCC just like a ham operator)

There was (I think) a time when talking on a cell phone was considered to be in the public domain, and the cops didn't need a warrant to listen in on your calls. As I understand it, this changed rather quickly. (cell companies are licensed to use the airwaves and "lease" them to you, wifi companies have the same arrangement) Wifi is still new. Emerging technologies always push the boundaries of the law back and forth. Hence, the current confusion. Is using someone else's wifi connection to surf the internet (receiving information only) "broadcasting"? Is using their wifi to send e-mail "broadcasting"? This FL (and all other state laws attempting to regulate wifi) is a joke, simple political pandering, and will probably be thrown out as soon as someone appeals to Federal Court. The states do have the right to add using wifi in the commission of a state crime as a crime of it's own, but that is it. Of course, appeals take money and this guy will probably just stike a deal and pay the fine to make it go away.

The FCC is, as I understand it, the only govt. entity that can regulate the airwaves, and congress thru the interstate commerce clause of the constitution (Article I, sec 8) has the authority to right laws pertaining to it. The FCC, lacking guidance from congress, will just make up the rules as they go along. Of course, the civil law side of all this is entirely different, and I suppose a wifi company could sue somebody for "stealing" (or sharing) their signals. I would know nothing at all about that.

again, this is only a layman's veiw of the law, so take with a TON of salt.

tom