What could make Cavechat better?

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Re: What could make Cavechat better?

Postby David Grimes » Dec 27, 2011 9:43 pm

One small issue would be the sheer number of topics that would need to be archived/locked. Since PHPBB does not have that feature built in it would likely be a very long project. With a few other things getting started now or very soon I am afraid the amount of time it would take would make it not feasible.

I will have to look into the software and see if there is an easier/faster way and get back to you on that one.
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Re: What could make Cavechat better?

Postby cavedoc » Dec 28, 2011 5:12 pm

NZcaver wrote:Fair call. Think it's worth asking the great unwashed masses by way of a Cavechat poll?


This unwashed one is against the idea. I don't get how older threads seem to offend some. Nothing against starting new, repeat threads and certainly nothing against links to other pertinant threads. I kinda like when older threads are resurrected with new information. Sometimes we can tag a thread so we can get notified when somehting new is posted on it. If we lock older ones we might miss out on something that we can learn from/post on. Keep the old threads open.
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Re: What could make Cavechat better?

Postby Mudduck » Dec 28, 2011 10:08 pm

cavedoc wrote:
NZcaver wrote:Fair call. Think it's worth asking the great unwashed masses by way of a Cavechat poll?


This unwashed one is against the idea. I don't get how older threads seem to offend some. Nothing against starting new, repeat threads and certainly nothing against links to other pertinant threads. I kinda like when older threads are resurrected with new information. Sometimes we can tag a thread so we can get notified when somehting new is posted on it. If we lock older ones we might miss out on something that we can learn from/post on. Keep the old threads open.


I think you kinda missed the point. When I was a new guy(to cavechat) a few years back I remember running across this website while looking for information. I read several lengthy old threads on subjects I was interested in being educated on but decided NOT to post any further in those threads due to the sarcasm that was already in them for fear of putting anyone off or being ridiculed. While I was far from new to caving, because of those posts, I laid really low for a while until I decided to stick my neck out. Fortunately I (for me anyway) I stuck around. I think many new people would/ do not. While I know cavechat is relatively tame we tend to forget that most people new to this forum are also new to caving and like it or not we all tend to be pretty smug at some point or another. As far as tagging a post then perhaps they could be archived simply into an "older post" sub forum and be left unlocked that way people such as yourself can still receive your notifications if someone were to add something. Setting them aside would remove clutter and still allow the info to be accessed. I'm not arguing for or against but rather supporting, with a slight variation, what Smeg said a few posts back.
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Re: What could make Cavechat better?

Postby NZcaver » Dec 29, 2011 2:41 am

Thanks for the ongoing suggestions. As David mentioned before, the amount of work involved would likely preclude us from any major archive plan. Creating additional forum archive sections for each sub-forum and potentially having to move thousands of existing topics AND keep track of new "old" topics would be a mammoth task.

Still, it's good to hear the reasoning behind suggestions like this. Fresh perspectives can be good. In the real world, most groups of cavers I know are usually happy to welcome a new caver and politely invite them to partake in discussion. I think this forum is not all that different, but with the added 'bonus' that any member or lurker can while away the hours reading volumes of old information, sarcasm, ridicule and other baggage. In the real caving world, you normally have to be around a while before all that spills out! :big grin:
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Re: What could make Cavechat better?

Postby Squirrel Girl » Dec 29, 2011 7:15 am

Is it just me, or does it really not make sense to "regulate" the access to information or "forcing" renewal?

I mean, some people (especially the old regulars) get tired of the same subjects getting rehashed over and over (and over and over). Yet other people (especially those who haven't participated all those repeated threads), want a little freshness and newer information and perspectives, plus the interaction that you don't get by reading a flood of old information (which may or may not have a ton of off-topic banter).

How about we leave things (operationally) as they are. But, through threads like these, we understand each others' viewpoints and the validity of each. New people could be pointed to existing thread, but they're not stopped from starting a fresh start.

Does it matter if a old thread is revived or a new thread started?
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Re: What could make Cavechat better?

Postby Mudduck » Dec 31, 2011 4:17 pm

Squirrel Girl wrote:I mean, some people (especially the old regulars) get tired of the same subjects getting rehashed over and over (and over and over). Yet other people (especially those who haven't participated all those repeated threads), want a little freshness and newer information and perspectives, plus the interaction that you don't get by reading a flood of old information (which may or may not have a ton of off-topic banter).


What you've said is a true endless circle. Old regulars tired of repetitive subjects and new guys wanting freshness. By the time new guys become old guys they're tired of the repetitiveness and then you have a whole set of new guys that have joined wanting freshness while also having a set of really really old guys who no longer log in because theres nothing but old threads they've read a zillion times. Not only is it an endless circle but a bit paradoxial. While what I mentioned in the earlier posts is not a feasible answer(I agree BTW), I think the key to making cave chat better is to find a freshness that will attract new people to join in while keeping the old regulars logging in and not getting grouchy and sarcastic when new folks join and ask the same ole questions. Perhaps a start, since making cavechat better is partially about new recruits, could be separating the General discussion and questions forum into two. This would give those wanting a specific audience of those who really enjoy sharing and helping while not putting "stupid" repetitive questions in front of those who like the general discussion aspect but can't stand new people or more to the point the associated ignorance.
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Re: What could make Cavechat better?

Postby Squirrel Girl » Dec 31, 2011 7:58 pm

Mudduck wrote:
Squirrel Girl wrote:I mean, some people (especially the old regulars) get tired of the same subjects getting rehashed over and over (and over and over). Yet other people (especially those who haven't participated all those repeated threads), want a little freshness and newer information and perspectives, plus the interaction that you don't get by reading a flood of old information (which may or may not have a ton of off-topic banter).


What you've said is a true endless circle. Old regulars tired of repetitive subjects and new guys wanting freshness. By the time new guys become old guys they're tired of the repetitiveness and then you have a whole set of new guys that have joined wanting freshness while also having a set of really really old guys who no longer log in because theres nothing but old threads they've read a zillion times. Not only is it an endless circle but a bit paradoxial. While what I mentioned in the earlier posts is not a feasible answer(I agree BTW), I think the key to making cave chat better is to find a freshness that will attract new people to join in while keeping the old regulars logging in and not getting grouchy and sarcastic when new folks join and ask the same ole questions. Perhaps a start, since making cavechat better is partially about new recruits, could be separating the General discussion and questions forum into two. This would give those wanting a specific audience of those who really enjoy sharing and helping while not putting "stupid" repetitive questions in front of those who like the general discussion aspect but can't stand new people or more to the point the associated ignorance.


I largely agree with what you've said. I know on the local mountain biking forum that I'm a moderator on, I will sometimes paste links to those old threads when someone posts up on a repetitive subject. I guess that way, if the questioner really wants to learn, s/he can read up to their heart's content. But if they can't bring themselves to read an old topic, then they can just hope they get what they're looking for, this time around. Either way, it doesn't preclude additional, new posting being undertaken.
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Re: What could make Cavechat better?

Postby NZcaver » Dec 31, 2011 8:26 pm

Mudduck wrote:...I think the key to making cave chat better is to find a freshness that will attract new people to join in while keeping the old regulars logging in and not getting grouchy and sarcastic when new folks join and ask the same ole questions. Perhaps a start, since making cavechat better is partially about new recruits, could be separating the General discussion and questions forum into two.

I also agree mostly with what you're saying. I don't know how well splitting general questions and general discussion would work (and if people would comply), but it might be worth a shot.

Incidentally Bill, I considered some of your previous observations/suggestions when I posted this reply in a recent topic. A little fresh discussion mixed with an old link or two seemed to be an appropriate recipe in that situation.
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Re: What could make Cavechat better?

Postby Cheryl Jones » Jan 1, 2012 10:13 pm

What about an FAQ page with links to topics that cover common questions or issues (how to start caving, what to take underground, what's in a first aid kit, how to rig a frog system, and so forth)?

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Re: What could make Cavechat better?

Postby David Grimes » Jan 1, 2012 10:30 pm

We did have the conversation about a FAQ section a while back but we started taking suggestions and looking for people to write content then the ideal just kind of lost steam. It definitely would be a nice addition and I will see if we can't get the ball rolling again on that one.
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Re: What could make Cavechat better?

Postby Mudduck » Jan 2, 2012 9:48 pm

First of all I'm not skilled in web design skills but I came up with an idea a while back based on the difficulty I have in finding people with similar interests and common personal traits to do things outdoors with. I was going to base it on a "singles"site format. You know the whole "X" number of points of compatibility thing? Well anyway it would have allowed people to fill out a template and be "matched" with similar people who enjoy similar outdoor activities but that also share common beliefs and ideals. I wanted to call the website "Outdoor Buddies" however there is now a site with this name that is in Colorado that helps disabled and youths experience the outdoors. I bring this up because of the brief singles topic on Cavechat. While I realize is not conceivable to do here, I thought the idea might spur some thought.
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Re: What could make Cavechat better?

Postby Smeg » Jan 3, 2012 12:25 pm

Are sticky threads not available with this software?

I didn't see any mention of them in this thread but for important threads and those that get a lot of attention having them stickied to the top of the page works on a lot of boards. It shocked me that this place didn't have them.
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Re: What could make Cavechat better?

Postby David Grimes » Jan 3, 2012 2:15 pm

We do have sticky threads but they are only used by the moderators.
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Re: What could make Cavechat better?

Postby NZcaver » Jan 3, 2012 5:00 pm

What we need is a snappy intro video for new forum members, like this old classic!
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Re: What could make Cavechat better?

Postby graveleye » Jan 3, 2012 9:28 pm

loool that is the funniest thing I've seen all day!! :tonguecheek:
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