What could make Cavechat better?

[GroundquestMSA]

I agree with LukeM, I think this forum is pretty mild also.

As do I. I especially appreciate the relative scarcity of obscenity. Many forums seem to be used mainly by those whose vocabulary contains no non-vulgar adjectives.

[hammmike]

I'm sure this is a sensitive request...but how about a cave map section??? I'm not talking about any locations, but a PDF style printable map of the cave it'self that registered users could download. I know that there are maps to most caves on the net, for good or bad, but a centralized location would be great. Also a rating system designed to provide potential explorers with a brief summary of what to expect, who to contact, parking considerations, and even pollution levels or other enviromental factors. Also, now that Im on a roll, even a submissions area where surveyors could upload thier data for inspection by a qualified person to check thier work, provide feedback, before submitting it to the national registry.
Of course in the interest of keeping these treasures protected...if you don't know where it is, then too bad, but enjoy the pictures.

[David Grimes]

hammmike,

I have brought up that ideal before, not here on Cavechat but on a separate website. I purchased the domain and started working on the website but I abandoned the ideal due to a lack of interest/participation from other cavers. I personally feel it would be a great resource since no locations are revealed but people who know where the cave is can find a map and be better prepared for what they will encounter. I had the ideal when I first started caving since I was always traveling to a cave I had never been to and I really wanted to know what to expect.

If others feel like it is a good ideal we could probably try it out at least. I would likely have to create a separate page to house a menu to select state and so forth and a database to hold all the records so it would likely take a little time to implement. I think if any website could put together a good source of cave maps for the country or even world Cavechat is definitely the one to do it.

I need to be sure it would actually be used and contributed to before I make a commitment to the project so I will run a poll here on Cavechat to see if the interest is there.

[Marduke]

How about the ability to at least block people then? The "friend/foe" thing doesn't really help. Foe's still see what you post, and are fully capable of being just as much of a jerk as always.

[NZcaver]

How about the ability to at least block people then? The "friend/foe" thing doesn't really help. Foe's still see what you post, and are fully capable of being just as much of a jerk as always.

This forum used to have an ignore member option, but it seems to have disappeared - presumably during one of the many software updates.

[David Grimes]

I will look into that feature NZ. It was likely a mod, if so we can probably get it back. Unfortunately the old mods were not documented in any way so I have no way of knowing if an older mod is lost in an update unless someone notices.

[Marduke]

How about the ability to at least block people then? The "friend/foe" thing doesn't really help. Foe's still see what you post, and are fully capable of being just as much of a jerk as always.

This forum used to have an ignore member option, but it seems to have disappeared - presumably during one of the many software updates.

Better, but still wished it was bi-directional. That way the offending member would be prevented from stirring up trouble. Ignored users still show up in quoted replies also.

[NZcaver]

For what it's worth, I was never a fan of the "ignore" feature.

As I recall, when you click to ignore somebody and they post in a topic you see their name/avatar come up with a blank/blocked post. So you only get part of the conversation, and miss some of the context of questions/answers/arguments etc. And when other people quote the ignored person, you see the text from their post anyway. Like when people get fired up in a topic, then go back and delete or severely edit all their posts. An annoying practice that results in very disjointed discussion topics.

Sometimes it's tough not to let annoying people/posts get to you. Of course you can try being selective about those you reply to, and if you do feel the need to reply to something controversial/emotional consider using the "save draft" feature instead of submitting your post immediately. Then come back to it after taking a break, re-read it, and post/edit/discard as appropriate. I do that sometimes. Sometimes...

[Smeg]

As someone new here but plenty of experience with forums. The constant references to old outdated topics is very tiresome.

On this forum there are many relevant topics to my interests but the mindset here seems to be that if something has been discussed once any new topics or threads are just repeats. I seem to notice it most in equipment threads. If someone posts a new topic they are almost immediately told to go look read a link to a thread talking about something similar, sometimes going back several years. Linking someone to an outdated thread serves no purpose to keep and maintain a useful and vibrant forum. Things happen, people/opinions change, and new products come out. Even if nothing has changed, looking through old links and trying to sort through posts that are relevant and up to date with what someone wants is very cumbersome. Many times even a waste of time, mainly because most links to outside websites and/or products are to old or not valid anymore.

This mentality is really a turn off to someone new like me. I understand the idea of asking someone to use the search tool and the purpose of keeping the clutter down, but to do so to such an extent that people are referencing topics that are over a year old is a bit much. Decreasing the negativity to new topics that have been written about before would increase traffic and help keep people around and more active.

New topics covering things such as Caving attire, proper gear and equipment, and even general caving matters may seem like repeat posts to those that are seasoned vets, but people like me that are new to this like to read about things from up to date sources. It is hard to figure out sometimes if a post from 2003 or 2005 is still relevant to what I need or want. Having new posts and topics that are not filled with negativity help out quite a bit.

I'm not directing this at any one person or group of people, I am far too knew to know anyone. I am simply giving my observation from what I have been reading over the last few months.

[David Grimes]

Thanks for bringing that up Smeg. A lot of the time users are directed to older posts but generally the topic will take off a bit on its own even if it is a repeat of an older topic. I agree being directed to hundreds of pages of older content can be a bit of a let down to an enthusiastic new caver. I think that is a suggestion everyone should consider. There is no harm in linking back to older topics but an answer in your own posts could not hurt.

A lot of the links to older topics come from older issues with the forum. We used to have issues with space limitations that were resolved a couple years ago when we switched servers. Many times we simply are trying to save space and don't think about pushing people away.

[NZcaver]

Interesting observation, Smeg.

I'm one of the prime culprit forum veterans who often encourages people to search old topics for *some* of the information they seek, and I make no apologies for it. In fact it's written into the Please Read Me First Before Posting announcement.

I get that starting new discussions on common topics (even ones that have been previously beaten to death) helps contribute to a vibrant forum. Feel free to continue doing that. We no longer merge new topics into old ones as much as we used to, but we still encourage people to post links to previous related topics. Yes, some things do change with technology and new people with new opinions, etc. But if you start a new topic asking about caving suits - like many forum members have done since this version of the forum began in 2005 - you're going to get a mix of current opinion/technology along with some links to previous information. Frankly, caving suits haven't changed as much in the last six years as headlamps etc have.

Posting links to previous topics is not intended to belittle a person for not searching for information before asking, nor is it intended to stifle new discussion. It's just a note to say we've talked about this before, and maybe the effort people made to contribute to discussions back then can help answer some of your questions and provide further information to you now. However, I will try to bear in mind that referencing old topics to help answer repeat questions can be a tiresome turnoff to some of our newer forum members. Would some kind of forum community wiki database on common caving topics help? Or are you just making the point that repeat questions deserve fresh, new answers from the forum community every time?

[Mudduck]

What about simply creating a separate archive for info say older than a year and lock it and lable it as "for reference only".

[NZcaver]

What about simply creating a separate archive for info say older than a year and lock it and lable it as "for reference only".

A reasonable suggestion, but I'm reluctant to support the locking of all 'information' (discussion topics) just because they are over a year old. I suspect some people view this forum primarily as a current events social networking/blog site, but other members and lurkers may consider it more a timeless interactive caving resource. Or a contentious hotbed of dissenting arguments that are forever beating the same dead horses, depending on your perspective.

[Mudduck]

What about simply creating a separate archive for info say older than a year and lock it and lable it as "for reference only".

A reasonable suggestion, but I'm reluctant to support the locking of all 'information' (discussion topics) just because they are over a year old. I suspect some people view this forum primarily as a current events social networking/blog site, but other members and lurkers may consider it more a timeless interactive caving resource. Or a contentious hotbed of dissenting arguments that are forever beating the same dead horses, depending on your perspective.

It could encourage new threads of old topics(which are new to many folks). I would definately be more apt to visit a new(old) topic with potentially fresh perspective rather than someone new posting on a 3 year old thread whos opinion could be skewed from some rant an original poster made because they woke up on the wrong side of the bed 2 and a half years ago. Typically if I see a revived older topic I might glance at the latest post but rarely go much beyond that. I cant believe I'd be alone in this. Granted theres no guarantee with any changes or "improvements" so it would be a risk with folks taking both sides I'm sure. As far as horse beatings, thats mostly what we do here anyway. Its not a bad thing as thats the nature of giving information to those entering the caving world. It was just a thought.

[NZcaver]

Fair call. Think it's worth asking the great unwashed masses by way of a Cavechat poll?