Ex. of how I think the NSS should work...

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Ex. of how I think the NSS should work...

Postby self-deleted_user » Jun 24, 2011 12:10 pm

So I've talked before here about how I think the NSS should function more like the ARBA (American Rabbit Breeders Association). By breeders, for breeders, very proactive in lawmaking type issues and other such gov't things as well as of course promoting the hobby, providing information, standardization, history of rabbit raising and keeps a library and rabbit artifacts museum, and being a segway to get involved in groups and meet people. Sound basically like what you'd think the NSS should be like just replace rabbits with caves, right?

While I could give a ton of examples of each, stuff like this is what I mean with the proactive in gov't issues. This was just released to all members. We have managed to change things in the past, when dealing with things like a disease that they claimed was in rabbits as well as other rodents (what? rabbits are not rodents) yeah shows and all movement of rabbits across state borders were stopped for about 2 months as we worked to get rabbits off that list, but they were removed rather quickly and things continued as normal. I have faith that because of good leadership and rallying all members it can be the same again.

Below is an official plan of action released this evening by the president of ARBA- Mike Avesing. He has sent out the following information (see below) and has urged every single member of ARBA to take action immediately to oppose SB 917. Actually if any of you raise animals or just feel like standing up against this bill feel free to use the sample letter at the bottom, and send it to the committee members (faxes also listed). More letters the better!

Although, this sort of mass awareness email is kinda based on a good online network, which the ARBA has long since had, and something I don't see the NSS really has...the website can be hard to navigate with it's many layers and trying to sort where the info you want is, and I'm not aware of email lists and such (at least, all info I get regarding NSS activity is just from here, which you have to admit, not many cavers are on this forum). Is there a database of member emails for sending out notifications about things affecting members? Is there a way in the NSS to spread pertinent info fast, to every member? I've not seen any signs of such a setup. Maybe something the NSS should think about doing.

Official Call to Action from ARBA (American Rabbit Breeders Association) wrote:Please do the following:

1.) Cross post this official ARBA call to action alert to every single rabbit owner and raiser you know. There are over 1,700 members of ARBA. They all need to see this message as soon as possible. Encourage cross posting to as many concerned citizens as possible nation wide. This message needs to go viral within the next 24 hours to be effective. It is up to each and every single person receiving this email to step up and to send it on to as many folks as they can. We all need to do this if we care about the future of rabbit raising and preserving animal farming interests in California and Nationally.

2.) Please either fax or send your opposition letter as soon as possible to Senator Ted Lieu, Governor Jerry Brown, and all members of the California Assembly Appropriations Committee. All of the necessary contact information is contained within the ARBA action plan below. Also attached and embedded below is a sample letter that can be used. Just fill in your information as appropriate. Please feel free to edit to better convey your opposition message. Remember to include this phrase
at the top of your letter: (name of organization or individual) strongly oppose SB 917 as amended and in any an all forms. This is so your opposition to this bill will not be dropped should it be changed or amended.

3.) Next, get as many people as you can to likewise fax or send in their opposition letters. Remember that simply calling or emailing will NOT assure that your opposition will be heard and added to the officialfile. Have every single member of your family, your friends, co-workers, fellow farmers, etc. fax in their opposition individually. All animal husbandry will be ended in California should this bill pass. We want to literally melt down their fax machines and make it difficult for them to conduct their business as usual. Past experience has taught us that this is the only way to get their attention so they will hear us.

4.) Please, all of you from out of state, please join our opposition effort and fax in your opposition letters ASAP. As the saying goes "So goes California , so goes the nation". The animal rights operatives behind this monstrous bill will replicate it across the nation if they are successful in passing it in California . This is their tried and true mode of operandus. YOU CAN BANK ON IT!

We all should extend a big thank you to Mike Aversing for his invaluable help in this effort.

ARBA Action Plan for "CA Senate Bill 917"

The ARBA is very concerned with the potential impacts of SB 917 on our hobby and our members in CA. With that in mind, we are urging that every one of our 1731 California members contact their elected state officials to express their concern about the negative impacts of SB 917. Target the elected officials that represent you. Encourage your family and friends fax letters of opposition to the bill. 4H or FFA groups would also be impacted by this bill and would also we a great place to get
additional support.

To make it easier for everyone to do that, we are providing the following to as many members as we can:

*
A sample letter that can be sent to your elected state officials.
(Separate email attachment) The letter should be useable by anyone. If you raise cavies, just substitute "cavies" for rabbits in the letter. Opposition letters can be faxed to 916-319-2181 to be reviewed by the individual who will be writing the analysis for the Appropriations Committee. Additionally, it is a good idea to fax opposition letters to each Assembly person on the appropriations committee to convey your position and how this bill will adversely affect you, your organization, and animal husbandry in general. Faxing letters is preferred to calling since the fax is a hard copy of your opposition and must be included in the file. Calls are not recorded as such. Contact information for the members of the Appropriations Committee is also included in this document.
*
Contact information for CA State Assemblymen (Separate email attachment)
*
Talking points that you can use in discussions on the bill (See below)

Melting down the fax machines at the capitol was a very successful tactic we have used in the past to defeat other bad animal rights bills. WE NEED LARGE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE sending in their opposition. At the bottom of this email is the contact list for the Assembly Appropriations Committee. When you have completed your opposition effort then it is imperative that we get others to do the same. These can be family members, neighbors, friends, fellow farmers and rabbit breeders, co-workers, etc. Please have those who reside out of state that you know do the same. SPREAD THE WORD QUICKLY. It is especially important to fax opposition letters to Governor Brown's office and Senator Ted Lieu's office.

Here is their contact information:

Governor Jerry Brown
c/o State Capitol, Suite 1173
Sacramento , CA 95814

Phone: (916) 445-2841
Fax: (916) 558-3160

Senator Ted Lieu

Capitol Office
<http://dist28.casen.govoffice.com/index.asp?Type=B_LOC&SEC=%7B30F02002-\
3492-43E2-8975-FE5CB6024AC5%7D&DE=%7B27B91061-BD53-4348-9794-4666DA0D287\
9%7D>

State Capitol, Room 4090

Sacramento , CA
95814
Phone: (916) 651-4028
Fax: (916) 323-6056

The information we are providing has been supplied by many individuals within our membership. I don't want to mention names for fear of forgetting someone. I'd sincerely like to thank them for their assistance and support.

Mike Avesing

Talking Points:

BENEFITS of the rabbit and cavy fancies:

*
the productive contribution the hobby makes in the lives of young people
*
community service
*
wholesome food
*
the green movement/sustainable agriculture
*
agribusiness/retail economy
*
promotion of responsible rabbit ownership that ARBA members support

Committee Members District FAX E-mail

Felipe Fuentes - Chair Dem-39 (916) 319-2139

Assemblymember.Fuentes@assembly.ca.gov

Diane L. Harkey - Vice Chair Rep-73 916) 319-2173

Assemblymember.Harkey@assembly.ca.gov

Bob Blumenfield

Dem-40 (916) 319-2140 Assemblymember.Blumenfield@assembly.ca.gov

Steven Bradford

Dem-51 (916) 319-2151 Assemblymember.Bradford@assembly.ca.gov

Charles M. Calderon

Dem-58 (916) 319-2158 Assemblymember.Calderon@assembly.ca.gov

Nora Campos

Dem-23 (916) 319-2123 Assemblymember.Campos@assembly.ca.gov

Mike Davis

Dem-48 (916) 319-2148 Assemblymember.Davis@assembly.ca.gov

Tim Donnelly

Rep-59 (916) 319-2159 Assemblymember.Donnelly@assembly.ca.gov

Mike Gatto

Dem-43 (916) 319-2143 Assemblymember.Gatto@assembly.ca.gov

Isadore Hall III

Dem-52 (916) 319-2152 Assemblymember.Hall@assembly.ca.gov

Jerry Hill

Dem-19 (916) 319-2119 Assemblymember.Hill@assembly.ca.gov

Ricardo Lara

Dem-50 (916) 319-2150 Assemblymember.Lara@assembly.ca.gov

Holly J. Mitchell

Dem-47 (916) 319-2147 Assemblymember.Mitchell@assembly.ca.gov

Jim Nielsen

Rep-2 (916) 319-2102 Assemblymember.Nielsen@assembly.ca.gov

Chris Norby

Rep-72 (916) 319-2172 Assemblymember.Norby@assembly.ca.gov

Jose Solorio

Dem-69 (916) 319-2069 Assemblymember.Solorio@assembly.ca.gov

Donald P. Wagner

Rep-70 (916) 319-2070 Assemblymember.Wagner@assembly.ca.gov

Sample Letter :

I (name of organization or individual) strongly oppose SB 917 as amended and in any and all forms.

Dear Esteemed Assemblyman: ,

I would like to convey my strong opposition to bill SB 917 pertaining to the topic of "animal abuse". I ask to be included in the count for the opposition to SB917.

This proposed law is a direct assault on animal husbandry in the state of California including, but not limited to, those who raise rabbits. SB 917 constitutes a direct assault on small farmers and intends to criminalize them simply for their responsible and ethical pursuit of animal raising. Those who raise rabbits and other animals will be forbidden to sell them anywhere except on private property. This requirement will inevitably impede both interstatecommerce as well as live animal trade within California 's borders.

Selling at shows and public on property, giving away animals as pets, and transporting them to be picked up anywhere on public property will be considered an act of "animal cruelty" replete with fines, seizure of private property (animals), and arrest as a misdemeanor offense. Furthermore, the natural and time honored farming practice of harvesting animals for food will be now be criminalized and potentially be classified as "cruel and intentional killing", an act of animal cruelty, and, according to this law, a felonious crime.

The terms cruelty, abuse, and neglect are not well defined by this bill. As written, they are ambiguous terms subject to the conjecture and whims of the enforcer. Who is to determine what is cruel, neglectful, and/or abusive and what is not? What criterion will be used? None are set forth in this bill. Normal farming practices may seem cruel to someone who has always resided in a city and has only owned pets that live with them inside their homes as many animal control investigators have. Because this law is so badly written and poorly defined, its enforcement will cause the inevitable abuse of power by those who choose to do so.

Clearly,this bill will unavoidably lead to the criminalization of innocent farming and animal raising California citizens. Families will be prohibited from raising rabbits and other animals for food. Children participating in 4H and FFA will become instant criminals upon their 18th birthday simply because they raise animals. Small farmers, under the weight of such a draconian and ill-conceived law, will be forced to abandon farming in California and flee the state resulting in a massive loss of tax revenue and a vital food supply. All wrongly convicted farmers and animal raisers caught in this ill-conceived dragnet will be incarcerated in California 's already over-populated penal system. Rest assured, there will be legal challenges to this law which again will be borne by the California taxpayer. Additionally, this is an unfunded mandate whose implementation will be paid for by already critically cash-strapped local governments. .

During these fiscally challenging economic times, California simply can not afford to make SB 917 a law. Please stand with our innocent farmers and animal raisers of California by opposing this draconian legislation. The last thought I would like to leave you with is- what will happen to California 's meat supply should this bill go into effect? We are one of the largest food producing regions in the world. How many people will be adversely affected by this law when the cost of meat escalates beyond affordability? Already cash strapped families will no longer be able to provide their children with meat based protein which is absolutely essential for normal human development. The ultimate costs of SB 917 are grave and far reaching.

Thank you so much for your time and attention to this matter.

Sincerely,

(Your name/ position and/or organization here)
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Re: Ex. of how I think the NSS should work...

Postby GroundquestMSA » Jun 24, 2011 6:51 pm

Goodness.
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Re: Ex. of how I think the NSS should work...

Postby nathanroser » Jun 24, 2011 10:06 pm

GroundquestMSA wrote:Goodness.


It's like reading a bill from Congress, but it's actually in english. We as the NSS should be doing more outreach and education to young people, when I was in school I remember an astronaut coming in and talking all about NASA and space exploration, and other things like science and wildlife shows. So getting something like that about caves and bats at schools and science museums could do a lot to get people interested and show everyone that bats are adorable and not creepy (except for some of those ugly ones that look like the goblins from Troll 2).
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Re: Ex. of how I think the NSS should work...

Postby self-deleted_user » Jun 24, 2011 11:11 pm

Yeah...it's what the ARBA sent out to peeps to make them aware of the bill, and what to do to fight it, in detail who to write/what to say/where it goes to/why. This is typical SoP for things of this nature that affect us rabbit breeders as to how the ARBA does it. It's really nice to be informed without having to dig through info, and know what they want us to do to help all in one place easily.

I know of some folk who do bat/cave things at their local schools independently. I know the MKC takes college students through the cave up north in MI (I should know, I've helped on those trips, usually just being tail 'cause I don't know all the geology stuffs like Tim does and can talk about as we move through the cave).

Bats are totally adorable. Isn't there some grotto called Flittermouse? I LOVE that name. SO. FREAKIN. ADORABLE. Even the creepy bats I think are cute!
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Re: Ex. of how I think the NSS should work...

Postby Phil Winkler » Jun 25, 2011 8:24 am

The German word for bat is fledermaus. Literally, flying mouse.
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Re: Ex. of how I think the NSS should work...

Postby self-deleted_user » Jun 25, 2011 10:56 am

Phil Winkler wrote:The German word for bat is fledermaus. Literally, flying mouse.

Germans are smart people. I should've taken german instead of spanish. I was watching the Big Bang Theory last night and there was another word from German they used that was great as we didn't have a word for it in English but I can't remember it.

I still wish we could have domesticated bats to keep as pets. Best. Pet. Ever. I mean, if they made good pets. You know what I mean.
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Re: Ex. of how I think the NSS should work...

Postby Phil Winkler » Jun 25, 2011 1:42 pm

Merlin Tuttle has had a fruit bat as a pet for many years. He used to bring it to conventions. Absolutely adorable creatures. Fun to hang out with, too. :)
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Re: Ex. of how I think the NSS should work...

Postby self-deleted_user » Jun 25, 2011 1:55 pm

Wait what? Bats can be pets? I thought they couldn't be!!! OMG I need a fruit bat. Where do I get one? I'll save it from WNS by letting it live in my apartment and train it to scare all my neighbors! :D
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Re: Ex. of how I think the NSS should work...

Postby nathanroser » Jun 25, 2011 2:21 pm

So far the most awesome bat video I have found, there's a group in Australia that rescues and cares for hundreds of baby flying foxes. you'll just have to sit through the bloody ad before the video starts.

http://video.nationalgeographic.com/vid ... shing.html
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Re: Ex. of how I think the NSS should work...

Postby Teresa » Jun 30, 2011 9:56 pm

Sungura,
In the late 1980s and early 1990s, the NSS Conservation and Cave Management Section worked just like you envision. It was modest website with an email discussion list attached, where the one fellow (Rob Stitt) managed the website and people from all around the country contributed information, action items and calls to action for distribution. It wasn't pretty, but it was effective. Rob managed the website, but people from all over contributed information. That's how I got active with the CCMS..by contributing info on lead mining in the karst region of Missouri.
Basically, when the first Usenet style cavers discussion list (which eventually morphed int Cavechat) came into being, people began posting here, or on regional discussion lists instead. But it wasn't to such a focused on conservation core group, and hence, it turned into too much talk and not enough action. People became focused on the pretty presentation, and not the information. After a while the most well-intentioned and enthusiastic person wears out from an enormous volunteer effort.
Hey, you're young. Pick a caving cause and go for it!
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Re: Ex. of how I think the NSS should work...

Postby mgmills » Jul 1, 2011 8:10 am

Sungura wrote:Bats are totally adorable. Isn't there some grotto called Flittermouse? I LOVE that name. SO. FREAKIN. ADORABLE. Even the creepy bats I think are cute!


http://dictionary.reverso.net/english-d ... ittermouse
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Re: Ex. of how I think the NSS should work...

Postby Batgirl » Jul 1, 2011 1:48 pm

The problem with initiative is that it eventually burns out. There are lots of new folks that want to contribute and bring new ideas to the table, but unfortuantely, those that have been around awhile will tell you they have been there and done that - providing no support for the newer generations. This IMHO has made much of the community apathetic to issues. Cavers just want to go caving.

:notlistening: Makes you wanna :mad2: and :hairpull:
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Re: Ex. of how I think the NSS should work...

Postby Extremeophile » Jul 1, 2011 11:56 pm

I understand what's being proposed here, but I'm not sure there's room at the proposed HQ for rabbit breeding. I'm not familiar with the mechanics of rabbit breeding, but I doubt it's easy to do underground. Perhaps the NSS could produce a series of instructional videos and post them on the web. That would make membership worth $40/year.
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