Preparing a home kit for natural disasters

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Re: Preparing a home kit for natural disasters

Postby nathanroser » Mar 31, 2011 8:58 pm

DIY surgery eh? You can't forget the leeches if you're going to try that one.
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Re: Preparing a home kit for natural disasters

Postby self-deleted_user » Mar 31, 2011 9:27 pm

Well why else would you need anesthesia? And suturing and some shot wounds aren't exactly major surgery. This is a survival nothing is around to help anymore situation, right? I know my way enough around the human body and I'm trained in rodent survival surgery I could do something minor just fine. I mean if you really want I could swipe some lidocane too. If we ever get in trouble, having lab access I think will be a huge bonus for me :P who wants me on their zombie survival team?!

And I am confused also with the alcohol anesthesia thing...having alcohol in the system usually majorly complicates anesthesia. Yes alcohol can help some but it's not gonna be the same thing as putting someone under.
Pain, Volume 32, Issue 2, February 1988, Pages 159-163 wrote:Orally administered ethyl alcohol (100%), mixed in a 1:1 ratio with tonic water at a dose of 2 mg/kg (the equivalent of two cocktails) produced tolerance to experimentally induced pain comparable to 0.17 mg/kg s.q. morphine (11.6 mg in a 70 kg person). Pain threshold i.e., the initial awareness of pain, was not modified by either morphine or alcohol. The experiment was run using 18 paid subjects in an experimenter-blinded design. Both a pharmacologically active placebo (atropine) as well as a totally inactive placebo (saline) were employed. Pain induction occurred via mechanical pressure on the Achilles tendon utilizing a device previously standardized in the clinical screening of over 100,000 patients for pain awareness.

These results suggest that alcohol, in non-intoxicating quantities, may be an effective adjunct to other analgesic modalities.


**note: i am in no way saying I would take stuff from the lab now, that wouldn't be good :P I just mean if world comes to an end and it's everyone for themselves, I'm for sure using whatever I can!
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Re: Preparing a home kit for natural disasters

Postby ArCaver » Apr 1, 2011 2:18 am

I don't know how anyone can argue against alcohols anesthetic value. Many times when I was younger I injured myself while drinking and felt little, or cared little until I sobered up. Everclear and high grade vodkas both would make reasonably good antiseptics in a pinch. They're also good glass cleaners and can be used to clean high grade optics on cameras and scopes without fear of damaging the coatings. For any of these uses you would of course want to use an unopened container if at all possible. The best reason to have them (and beer, wine, brewing supplies etc.) in a true survival situation would be as barter. If TSHTF cash will have a declining value but the need for alcohol and other mind altering substances runs to the root of our species existence. You can always find someone to trade something for a buzz.
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Re: Preparing a home kit for natural disasters

Postby NZcaver » Apr 1, 2011 3:28 am

Yeah, I'm sure hoarding alcohol is a high priority for the Japanese and other folks recently disrupted by natural disasters around the globe... :roll:

Or perhaps it might be more constructive to start with with the basic food, water, shelter, communication/information, transportation, and some actual medical supplies? Coincidentally, some of the items Andrew mentioned in his initial post. Or am I just being too cynical? :shrug: :laughing:
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Re: Preparing a home kit for natural disasters

Postby ArCaver » Apr 1, 2011 7:15 am

NZcaver wrote:Yeah, I'm sure hoarding alcohol is a high priority for the Japanese and other folks recently disrupted by natural disasters around the globe... :roll:

Or perhaps it might be more constructive to start with with the basic food, water, shelter, communication/information, transportation, and some actual medical supplies? Coincidentally, some of the items Andrew mentioned in his initial post. Or am I just being too cynical? :shrug: :laughing:


The problem is that you can't hoard enough food, water, shelter, communication/information, transportation means for the long term, or at least most people can't. And some medical supplies, such as prescription meds either can't be obtained in quantity, will expire quickly or the individuals need change over time. In this area the years leading up to Y2K were entertaining. I saw people with 55 gallon drums of gasoline stacked 3 high in buildings 10'X10', caves with MREs, grains stashed in 5 gallon buckets and milk cans with O2 eaters thrown in to try and preserve them. Some caves held enough armament to make a difference in the current Libyan difficulties. Two trust fund babies I knew had LP gas tanks, the kind pulled behind a semi trailer, hidden down in hollers to power generators. I think for a long term survival situation you would need to be able to make, grow, trade and barter for supplies. My wife and I have about enough to get by without leaving site of the house for about a month. We really don't drink enough alcohol to make that a priority but quite by accident I do have a variety of booze stashed.
I can almost guaranty that some of the folks in Japan would love to knock back a few drinks right now, perhaps fire up a bong, just to take the edge off. Probably more than you would imagine already are. It's just part of humanity.
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Re: Preparing a home kit for natural disasters

Postby wyandottecaver » Apr 1, 2011 4:14 pm

A few: Plus the huge body of observational data of people who drink to self medicate chronic pain such as back injuries.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3362554

http://bja.oxfordjournals.org/content/50/2/139.full.pdf

http://www.pitt.edu/~super1/lecture/lec10571/index.htm
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Re: Preparing a home kit for natural disasters

Postby NZcaver » Apr 1, 2011 5:10 pm

Hmmm. That first link Amy posted earlier. It seems a little contrived. The second link doesn't work because it requires a subscription, but the third does make interesting reading despite the typos.

OK, fine. I concede alcohol might be a useful commodity in your home natural disaster survival kit. Knock yourselves out. Personally I don't mind an occasional drink, but I hope I never become one of those who uses it as an excuse to dull the pain of whatever woes befall me.
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Re: Preparing a home kit for natural disasters

Postby self-deleted_user » Apr 1, 2011 7:48 pm

NZcaver the second link todd posted is basically the same sort of study as mine (the tl'dr is they concluded it could be as useful as a morphine drip, which, is about what the study I posted is)
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