The Rant Thread - let it out!

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Re: The Rant Thread - let it out!

Postby Chads93GT » Feb 13, 2011 7:07 pm

I was thinking the same thing.
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Re: The Rant Thread - let it out!

Postby graveleye » Feb 14, 2011 4:30 pm

I'm just happy to not have anything to rant about.
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Re: The Rant Thread - let it out!

Postby Mudduck » Feb 14, 2011 5:49 pm

My rants?? Cussing on forums using *@#$!%@^#$*$( in place of vowels, absolutely no offense intended since its been done in this topic) and overanalyzing without all the facts.

Thats all I have to say about that
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Re: The Rant Thread - let it out!

Postby NZcaver » Feb 14, 2011 6:06 pm

graveleye wrote:I'm just happy to not have anything to rant about.

And I'm not happy unless I have something to rant about. :tonguecheek: There, I said it! Who's with me? I know I'm not the only one around here... :laughing:
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Re: The Rant Thread - let it out!

Postby Phil Winkler » Feb 14, 2011 6:14 pm

Don't get me started....... :roll:
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Re: The Rant Thread - let it out!

Postby MUD » Feb 14, 2011 6:31 pm

graveleye wrote:I'm just happy to not have anything to rant about.

:clap: I hear ya brother! Life is just too good. :waving:
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Re: The Rant Thread - let it out!

Postby self-deleted_user » Feb 14, 2011 7:02 pm

I currently have nothing to rant about too! :D

I totally just finished my caving book which now I can keep updated as I go along. It is awesome, I'm so glad I started it now while my first trips are still decently fresh in memory. It was so cool to figure out I've been on 23 trips (25 if you count that up north, 2 times I went through twice through the cave there, one right after the other since there were 2 groups to take through) in 7 months, 5 countries, 4 states. :yikes: more countries than states! How'd that happen? lol

Actually I'm too excited I'm posting a photo :grin: It has everything in it, I wrote where we went and saw and what happened (so basically, a trip report but if there is some official way to make those I dunno how, so it's more like a story trip report, ha!) and I included photos and at the end of the recordings for that cave, the survey on it marked out the passages we took. It's in a hardbound 8.5 x 11 sketchbook so it should last a super long time. Nicely, the sketchbook pages are perforated but dont tear out easily - so they stay in, however, I can take out pages here and there which keep the book flat otherwise pasting in the photos and stuff would make it all fat and bunchy and ruin the binding. I'm gonna get another book or two blank to have as I plan on caving for years...the 23 trips took up about 3/5 of the book already so figuring a book per year at my current rate is probably accurate.

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Re: The Rant Thread - let it out!

Postby Bill Putnam » Feb 14, 2011 9:40 pm

I would like to rant for a minute about something that has been on my mind for a while, but has been crystallized by recent events.

Complacency. Dependency. The idea that someone is going to keep us safe from harm, including the harm we do to ourselves. Where did this attitude come from? I do not know, but it seems epidemic in American culture and society, and it sickens me.

In our pride and arrogance, we Americans have conditioned ourselves to believe that we can tame the Universe - that no matter how inherently dangerous something may be, we can make it safe, seal it off, or shut it down so that all of us are safe from harm. But the world is not a safe place. In fact, it is inherently unsafe, and there is mayhem all around us every day.

People in third world countries know this, because they are not insulated from the risks and dangers by wealth and technology. Europeans and Asians know this, because of their history of war and conflict and invasion and rebellion over thousands of years. But we Americans have come to believe that we can not only make the world safe for Democracy, but also make it safe for the careless, ill-informed, and unprepared. But we can't, and it isn't.

How did we come to this clearly erroneous notion? We did this to ourselves.

We elect leaders who promise to keep us safe or make us safer. We pass laws to protect ourselves from dangers, and to prevent people from doing "dangerous" things. But it is inherently dangerous to get out of bed and leave your home. We deny this, but it is true nevertheless. Our sense of risk is disproportional. We obsess over the number of soldiers killed in Iraq when ten times that many Americans are killed every year in automobile accidents. We fear shark attacks and snake bites and and lightning strikes, when orders of magnitude more people are killed each year by drunk drivers. We fear terrorists, when in reality we are dying by the tens of thousands every year from heart disease and cancer, often related to smoking, drinking, obesity, and other lifestyle choices we make. We tell ourselves that driving is safe, because we think we understand it, but we do not understand the physics of high speed collisions, so we do not wear our seat belts, and have to be compelled by law to do so. We convince ourselves that we are safe. But we are not.

Our government fosters this ridiculous notion of "safety at all costs" at all levels - federal state and local - and tries to provide for our basic needs and protect us from external danger as well as our own foolish impulses. As a result, we have become soft and careless. And when that protection fails, we have to blame someone, because God forbid that anyone point out that we are responsible for ourselves and the consequences of our own actions, and that we have made bad choices. Choice is an American birthright, isn't it? Apparently, however, consequences are un-American.

America is a country founded on consequences. On risk. On the danger and death and destruction of rebellion and exploration and conquest. And, yes, on mayhem and genocide and slavery and war. But it was founded by people who understood consequences and personal responsibility. Apparently, many of us have lost that understanding, and are willing to yield the responsibility for our safety and security to others. We were wolves, once. Now we want to be sheep.

I choose to be a sheepdog.
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Re: The Rant Thread - let it out!

Postby Bill Putnam » Feb 14, 2011 9:50 pm

Also, I do not like snakes.
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Re: The Rant Thread - let it out!

Postby hunter » Feb 14, 2011 10:15 pm

Yeah, got to agree with you on this one Bill. I think I first really realized this after driving from the states down to El Pico de Orizaba (south of Mx city) and back. I realized on the way that the Mexicans are much better drivers than most Americans. This is because they have lousy roads and don't follow rules so they develop good instincts. When something goes wrong on the road here (car coming the wrong way in your lane) many people freeze but in Mexico this is common so people react quickly. Of course by "following the rules" we have fewer traffic deaths on average even if some could be prevented by more skilled drivers.

I have the same irritation with people associating my various sports with high hazard. If you trip while walking next to a busy road or next to a cliff you are just as dead.

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Re: The Rant Thread - let it out!

Postby l lambert » Feb 15, 2011 1:12 am

NZcaver wrote:My new rant of the day :rant: people who don't LOOK before they POST! :roll:

Come on, people... this isn't Facebook. You can't take 10 seconds to do a quick keyword search for existing topics before starting a new one? :doh: Or if it's really big urgent breaking news, at least click the view new posts or view active topics tab first!

Since yesterday, there's been 4 different topics started about the same incident in Ellison's. I know people were just trying to be helpful, but it doesn't take much to check first.

Grumble, grumble, grumble... :boxing:




I was one that started a new thread about Ellison's. I didn't log in and the thread was in the registered side of cavechat so I didn't see it.So why are you hiding this info. Perhaps some of the non-registered noobs could benefit from discussions such as that. So grumble all you want. :big grin:
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Re: The Rant Thread - let it out!

Postby NZcaver » Feb 15, 2011 2:04 am

l lambert wrote:I was one that started a new thread about Ellison's. I didn't log in and the thread was in the registered side of cavechat so I didn't see it.So why are you hiding this info. Perhaps some of the non-registered noobs could benefit from discussions such as that. So grumble all you want. :big grin:

Damn Leo/Kent, I just can't be mad at people who own up and explain themselves logically. :big grin:

Sometimes I forget not everybody logs in automatically each time he or she visits the forum. But everybody has to be logged in to post anyway.

I'm not sure why the original poster chose to start that topic in the registered-only forum, but if you read the ensuing discussion I think you'll agree it's good that some topics are not easily publicly searchable.

Now I have to find something else to *@#$!%@^#$*$ grumble about. I'm surprised Cavemud has nothing to rant about. That's very out of character. You feeling OK there, Mud? :tonguecheek:

Nice rant by Bill earlier today, though. Pure poetry. :goodjob:

See now, isn't this therapeutic? :clap:
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Re: The Rant Thread - let it out!

Postby Chads93GT » Feb 15, 2011 9:43 am

You know what else pisses me off? I have been holding this in for YEARS.

STarwars Episodes I, II, and III


REally????????? What the hell.
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Re: The Rant Thread - let it out!

Postby self-deleted_user » Feb 15, 2011 2:21 pm

Really just Star Wars in general I don't get. My friends made me record myself describing what I remember of Star Wars (I saw two movies dunno which two)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uubbc51nEds
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Re: The Rant Thread - let it out!

Postby Bill Putnam » Feb 15, 2011 2:49 pm

My rant for today, triggered by the post above:

Why do we have two separate rescue forums: one that requires registration and one that doesn't? It's confusing and duplicative.

We post details to the registered users only forum, and all the good stuff is there, so what purpose does the other one serve?

It is neglected and ignored like the proverbial red-headed stepchild, and serves no useful purpose. Sure, it offers some info that is easily searchable on the web by non-members. But the info is usually just media reports full of inaccuracies and half-truths, so interested readers have to register and go to the real rescue forum for better information.

But looking beyond that, why should registration be required, when the Cavechat TOS prohibit posting sensitive or inappropriate material? Wouldn't the moderators swoop down and remove anything inappropriate? It makes no sense to me to have two separate forums.

Don't we want accident and safety information to have as wide a distribution in the caving community as possible? I certainly do. Accident reporting and publication is one of the pillars of accident prevention.

The rescue forums should be consolidated into one, and that one should not require registration unless all of Cavechat requires registration (which it should, but that's another rant for another day).

Or if the self-appointed powers-that-be decree that useful information on caving accidents and rescues it too sensitive to be available to the general public (why?) then have one forum that requires registration. Anyone searching for info will find the forum anyway, and if they are interested enough they will register to be able to view the content.

I realize that reasonable people have different opinions and ideas about the management of Cavechat, the registration requirement, anonymity, and so forth, but this "split the baby" compromise is silly and pointless. It also defeats part of the purposes of Cavechat as a whole and the cave rescue forum in particular.
Bill Putnam, NSS 21117 RL/FE
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The jackal can roar,
pretending to be a lion.
The lion is not fooled.
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