The Rant Thread - let it out!

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Re: The Rant Thread - let it out!

Postby Bill Putnam » Feb 17, 2011 12:30 am

NZcaver wrote:
Bill Putnam wrote:Blah, blah, blah...

I'm so glad I took all that time to explain how the forum is supposed to work, and why it is the way it is. I'm also super-grateful you kindly translated everything I said into nonsensical monkey gibberish for your own self-amusement. What a wonderful and completely non-productive display of "I prefer doing things my way and any other way is wrong."

:off topic:
Dude. This is "The Rant Thread." Not the "if I explain it nicely Bill will be happy" thread. And definitely not the "snarky defensive slam the ranter for ranting" thread. Read the fine print in the description!
:laughing:

NZcaver wrote:You have yourself a nice day, too. :waving:

I did! Thanks!
:big grin:
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Re: The Rant Thread - let it out!

Postby NZcaver » Feb 17, 2011 12:48 am

Bill Putnam wrote:Dude. This is "The Rant Thread." Not the "if I explain it nicely Bill will be happy" thread. And definitely not the "snarky defensive slam the ranter for ranting" thread. Read the fine print in the description!

Dude - I know this is the "let it out" topic. I wasn't slamming you for ranting in general. I was snarkily slamming you for totally devaluing a post that took me almost an hour to put together by researching old material and translating it into semi-intelligible bites. My primary intention was not to invalidate your original rant, but to try to put it in perspective. Obviously this was time and effort completely wasted. So I guess that's my rant. Dude. :shrug:

Glad you had a good day. I did too, although now tired and sore from many hours of voluntary hard labor (and I don't mean this forum). :wink:
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Re: The Rant Thread - let it out!

Postby self-deleted_user » Feb 17, 2011 12:56 am

What do you do up in Alaska anyway if you don't mind me asking? My thoughts of Alaska are cold and dark for a good part of the year. And bright and sunny other bits but still frozen.
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Re: The Rant Thread - let it out!

Postby Bill Putnam » Feb 17, 2011 1:17 pm

NZcaver wrote:I was snarkily slamming you for totally devaluing a post that took me almost an hour to put together by researching old material and translating it into semi-intelligible bites. My primary intention was not to invalidate your original rant, but to try to put it in perspective. Obviously this was time and effort completely wasted. So I guess that's my rant. Dude.


Jansen,

What I got out of your carefully considered response was: that the decision to split the rescue forum was made a long time ago (apparently based on personal opinions of several people, some of whom are no longer involved); that is was a compromise decision (re. "splitting the baby" - see Solomon, King) among those people; that there is a fine distinction between the two forums (which I believe is lost on most form members, necessitating moderator intervention from time to time to direct posts to the property forum); that one justification is to somehow hide detailed info from friends and family of victims who may be searching for it (why?); that it's an admittedly imperfect arrangement (I agree); that you feel it is working satisfactorily (I disagree); that the level of duplication or redundancy or confusion is tolerable (not to me - I find it annoying); and that you feel a possible solution might be to continue the proliferation of forms by creating yet another one devoted to some aspect of cave rescue discussion (leading to more redundancy and confusion?).

Aside from my editorial comments interspersed above, is that not pretty much what you meant?

To me, that boils down to "we did it for our own reasons, we like it the way it is, we didn't ask your opinion, no one else is complaining, and we're not going to change it, so leave us alone."

OK then, whatever. We all have better things to do. This will be my last post on the subject (do I hear a collective sigh of relief?)

However:

I question the premise that it is necessary or appropriate to hide details from people who are searching for them. That is the very antithesis of the Internet and the World Wide Web. If you want something kept private, it should not be on the Web at all. Information wants to be free, as they say. Once on the Web, it cannot really be hidden or constrained.

Also, concealing information about accidents and rescues goes against the very purpose of accident reporting and analysis, which is to understand the causes and effects of accidents and disseminate information about them in the hope that future accidents may be prevented, thereby saving lives.

Further, such concealment is ineffective. Anyone searching for cave rescue info will find the public forum. Right next to it on the Board Index is the private forum. Also, links to the discussion and media reports lead to the private forum as well as the public one - see the ACA page for examples. Wouldn't a person seeking to understand the death of a friend or family member take a few moments to register in order to see what might be in there? I certainly would, and in fact I have done so a number times to gain access to similarly "hidden" or "protected" areas and posts on diving forums related to cave diving accidents. It is trivial to register and gain access to the material, and anyone searching seriously for information (i.e. friends, family, reporters, etc.) will do so.

Finally, it is silly to hide the whole forum because you are worried that someone might post something inappropriate or inconsiderate. That can and does happen in forums on other topics, and when it does moderators deal with the offending post. What is so special about cave rescue that it requires this kid glove approach? Is it because people sometimes die, and we are afraid to talk about it because someone's feelings might get hurt? Or because we fear we might get dragged into some ligation as a result? Or is it because we are unwilling to deal with the inappropriate posts? Whatever the reason, shouldn't the focus be on preventing accidents and saving lives rather than protecting feelings, avoiding disagreements, and covering our asses?

Frankly, it's not that important to me how the rescue forms are structured. It's at most a minor annoyance (have to look two places to be sure I get all the links & info related to an incident). I would probably continue to grumble to myself and try to ignore the inconvenience, except that I am trying to convince the BOG that Cavechat is a useful and worthwhile resource for the Society, and this is an example of the stuff they point to in dismissing it as unproductive and irrelevant.

And last of all, I'm not telling anyone what to do, nor am I demanding to have things my way. I complained about the way something is being done, gave the basis for my opinions, and tried to do so in a semi-humorous manner. I did not expect any response at all, but the one I received felt more like a pat on the head and a dismissal than an explanation, so I made fun of it (or tried to). No offense was intended, and I sincerely apologize for any that was given.
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Re: The Rant Thread - let it out!

Postby graveleye » Feb 17, 2011 2:43 pm

Rule # 1 of being a Cave Chat moderator: You're never going to please everyone.

If we change the rescue forum back, someone else would complain about it.

Just be glad we don't have the religio/politco forum anymore. If that ever comes back, I will resign as moderator!!! :waving:
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Re: The Rant Thread - let it out!

Postby MUD » Feb 17, 2011 2:57 pm

graveleye wrote:Just be glad we don't have the religio/politco forum anymore. If that ever comes back, I will resign as moderator!!! :waving:

I'm really glad because religion and politics SUCK big time! :rofl:
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Re: The Rant Thread - let it out!

Postby self-deleted_user » Feb 17, 2011 5:36 pm

Cavemud wrote:
graveleye wrote:Just be glad we don't have the religio/politco forum anymore. If that ever comes back, I will resign as moderator!!! :waving:

I'm really glad because religion and politics SUCK big time! :rofl:
Follow the hot air blowing? :big grin:
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Re: The Rant Thread - let it out!

Postby self-deleted_user » Feb 17, 2011 7:23 pm

Why is everyone in the tv show The Office screaming about the bat in the office? it's cute! Although it is funny them trying to convince Dwight it is a vampire. :rofl: (season 3 ep. 16 in case anyone is interested)
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Re: The Rant Thread - let it out!

Postby Chads93GT » Feb 17, 2011 8:38 pm

Tv...........pffft. Haven't had cable/direct tv in 2 years. Don't miss it at all.
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Re: The Rant Thread - let it out!

Postby Mudduck » Feb 17, 2011 9:02 pm

[quote="Chads93GT"]Tv...........pffft. Haven't had cable/direct tv in 2 years. Don't miss it at all.[/quote
Been 10 years for me that money better goes to caving gear and gas.
I think I can...I think I can...I think I can
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Re: The Rant Thread - let it out!

Postby Chads93GT » Feb 17, 2011 9:13 pm

Mudduck wrote:
Chads93GT wrote:Tv...........pffft. Haven't had cable/direct tv in 2 years. Don't miss it at all.[/quote
Been 10 years for me that money better goes to caving gear and gas.


Aye, friggin, men!

Most of my caver friends don't have it, nor do we watch tv. Talking about television shows in the cave never happens with my crew, THANK GOD!!!

We have lives, we don't need to watch someone elses.
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Re: The Rant Thread - let it out!

Postby MUD » Feb 17, 2011 9:31 pm

:laughing: I don't know which SUCKS more...religion, politics or tv! :rofl:
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Re: The Rant Thread - let it out!

Postby self-deleted_user » Feb 18, 2011 1:09 am

I don't own a TV. I just watch random shows online sometimes. Lately I've been kinda sick so I looked for a series to watch and thought maybe since a lot of my friends are always talking about the Office I should watch that. I really don't watch much TV though...since I don't have one. Haven't for almost a year.
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Re: The Rant Thread - let it out!

Postby cavedoc » Feb 18, 2011 2:20 pm

No TV in our house either. Of the others I can name without a TV, almost all are cavers.
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Re: The Rant Thread - let it out!

Postby cavedoc » Feb 18, 2011 2:29 pm

Cavemud wrote: I've eaten rattlesnake many times growing up. NO it doesn't taste just like chicken! Its actually very tasty.


I thought it tasted like salmon, especially if it's cooked with the skin.
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