Norman Cave Vandalized

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Norman Cave Vandalized

Postby wvdirtboy » Nov 10, 2009 8:43 am

The nicest pagoda-style stalagmite in Norman Cave, Greenbrier County, WV has been destroyed by vandals. A picture is at:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ilikegoogl ... 092810816/

Damage was also done to a nearby stalagmite that was haystack-like and topped by a cylindrical mite.

I do not know exactly when this happened, but it was done very recently and may be related to beer cans found on the entrance slope of the cave.

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Re: Norman Cave Vandalized

Postby tncaver » Nov 10, 2009 10:01 am

Education might help prevent such vandalism. But keeping cave locations secret will also help. Of course many caves
are so well known that secrecy is not an option. That pagoda stalagmite looks like it might be repairable.
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Re: Norman Cave Vandalized

Postby MUD » Nov 10, 2009 10:17 am

deleted for violation of the TOS!
Last edited by MUD on Nov 13, 2009 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Norman Cave Vandalized

Postby MUD » Nov 10, 2009 2:21 pm

post deleted for violation of the TOS!
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Re: Norman Cave Vandalized

Postby graveleye » Nov 10, 2009 2:37 pm

I know this might seem ridiculous, but could it have broken on its own?
Formations have self-destructed before for a variety of reasons.

Probably not in this case, but I'm just throwing that out there.
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Re: Norman Cave Vandalized

Postby MUD » Nov 11, 2009 10:19 am

I violated the TOS, so I've deleted my posts.
Last edited by MUD on Nov 13, 2009 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Norman Cave Vandalized

Postby tncaver » Nov 11, 2009 10:26 am

Where are all the cries for education that we've heard in the past?
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Re: Norman Cave Vandalized

Postby wvdirtboy » Nov 11, 2009 11:50 am

graveleye wrote:I know this might seem ridiculous, but could it have broken on its own?
Formations have self-destructed before for a variety of reasons.


A fair question. I thought about that while we were there and looked the site over. Breakdown blocks that did not come from the overlying ceilings were at the pogada-mite and beside the other damaged stalagmite. The overlying ceilings are weathered and lack divots corresponding to the many bread loaf-size rocks. My guess was that people were throwing rocks at the mites until they broke.

I might be less certain about this interpretation, but the other mite was not only decapitated, but the top was nowhere to be found. The beer cans lend themselves to this interpretation too.
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Re: Norman Cave Vandalized

Postby graveleye » Nov 11, 2009 1:01 pm

yea sounds like it was the work of vandals. Did the broken stal have chips on it that would indicate they were hit with rocks or something? They do chip quite easily.

Before the Kingston Saltpeter Cave was protected and managed by the NSS, vandals and rockhounds virtually stripped it of formations. Even in one instance they got part of a fairly large flowstone. You can actually see the marks where they would hit the stals.... some they got, and some were too tough and just bear the scars of a beating. It's sad, but that was done decades before cave conservation was even an issue. Anyway, I'm real familiar with what this sort of stuff looks like seeing it all the time.

But you're more than likely correct that it was the work of idiot vandals. Hanging's too good for them!
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Re: Norman Cave Vandalized

Postby wvdirtboy » Nov 13, 2009 11:52 am

Makes you wish the mite had fallen on one of the vandals.
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Re: Norman Cave Vandalized

Postby graveleye » Nov 13, 2009 2:06 pm

<post deleted for TOS violation>
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Re: Norman Cave Vandalized

Postby batrotter » Nov 13, 2009 8:42 pm

graveleye wrote:<post deleted for TOS violation>



Wow!!!!!!!!!!

Did the moderator delete his own post due to a TOS violation???????
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Re: Norman Cave Vandalized

Postby graveleye » Nov 13, 2009 9:17 pm

you wouldn't believe how I moderate myself.

/off to administer some self-punishment. :big grin:
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Re: Norman Cave Vandalized

Postby Ralph E. Powers » Nov 13, 2009 10:27 pm

Makes you want to go out and hurt some one... specifically vandals.

Beautiful formation... even if repaired it'll never be the same.

And people wonder WHY some of us want a gate on caves.
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Re: Norman Cave Vandalized

Postby wvdirtboy » Nov 14, 2009 9:19 am

I sympathize with Roger's comment about gates. Some (vocal) cavers are vehemently against gating, but why let caves be ruined? Sure, access would be more difficult for cavers, but is their convenience more important than what would be lost as yahoos trash caves?

In this case, there are still a large number of incredible formations in the cave. So, do we be patient and wait for them to be destroyed too? Or, does someone ask permission to gate the cave?
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