Cave Gating Workshop

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Re: Cave Gating Workshop

Postby tncaver » Aug 26, 2009 4:10 pm

I'm happy to say that the caves on the gated property I visit are pristine. There is not one single gated cave on the property.
The gate at the front of the cove does it's job and all the caves are as natural as they were when they were formed.

The caves on the property I visit that has no gate are also pristine. There is no gate at all and cavers have been there in the
past, yet there is no graffiti or vandalism.
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Re: Cave Gating Workshop

Postby MUD » Aug 26, 2009 5:04 pm

tncaver wrote:The caves on the property I visit that has no gate are also pristine. There is no gate at all and cavers have been there in the
past, yet there is no graffiti or vandalism.


Its just not that way where I mostly cave. I can't think of one non-gated cave that's pristine. Well, I actually do but they are unknown but to only a select few. SCSSCB forever! :laughing:
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Re: Cave Gating Workshop

Postby tncaver » Aug 26, 2009 6:18 pm

Some of the caves in the areas I mentioned, have been known about since the 1970's, yet these caves are still in fine condition.
I think these caves are an example that ALL caves don't have to be gated. These caves have been visited by cavers for years
(some were trespassing) and yet they are still just like new and have been known about for almost 40 years. The caves and/or the area they are in have significant geological features. I think when caves are "discovered" by locals, that crap happens. Gates are not as important as keeping cave locations known only to "RESPONSIBLE CAVERS". Cave education is fine so long as cave
locations are kept from the general public.
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Re: Cave Gating Workshop

Postby wyandottecaver » Aug 26, 2009 8:21 pm

IMHO people have a tendency to base gates on what they want to protect against vs what they want to protect.
They say that they need to prevent disturbance, vandalisim, tresspass, formation breakage, ect. But what are they protecting?

In reality very very few caves contain ANYTHING that isnt commonly found elsewhere. Vandals trash a sacrificial cave...ok...but what do you actually "save" by excluding the good and bad alike? usually nothing that you cant find within an hour drive. (or 30 minute walk) Those caves that do contain uncommon features or populations aren't usually subject to repeated and/or demonstrated threats. Caves with a truly unique resource probably should be gated after examination of other impacts...caves with truly unique resources are rare. a small population of endangered bats or a few unique invertebrates doesn't qualify to me based on the big picture. Lech, the mexican crystal cave, a few caves that contain a large percentage of a total bat species, a few caves that contain dozens of rare species, yes those are unique resources.

Of course private folks often want gates but we should discourage that when possible without offending the owner. I also don't see a problem with intelligent, temporary gates erected during survey of a new find. The emphasis being on intelligent and temporary.

One analogy I see is Government owned land. Most people agree that Yellowstone and the Grand Canyon are best owned by the government. But do they really need 84.5% of Nevada? We do need some cave gates...but not many.
I'm not scared of the dark, it's the things IN the dark that make me nervous. :)
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Re: Cave Gating Workshop

Postby tncaver » Aug 26, 2009 8:45 pm

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Re: Cave Gating Workshop

Postby MUD » Aug 27, 2009 7:00 am

Sounds like somebody can't get into a cave that's been gated! :big grin:
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Re: Cave Gating Workshop

Postby tncaver » Aug 27, 2009 8:26 am

It took two years to get permission to visit one gated cave. Now that one is closed to everyone because it is in a state park.
I got to visit it just before the WNS moratoruim was declared.

As far as I know the other gated cave that I've been trying to visit will be off limits to everyone permanently. It seems the cave
gater sent the landowner a bill for services that were supposed to be volunteered. At least, that is the story I heard from someone who claims to have talked directly to that landowner. Since the volunteers were cavers, it seems the landowner
doesn't trust cavers much any more. Go figure.
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Re: Cave Gating Workshop

Postby onebat » Aug 28, 2009 7:54 pm

I agree. I think there are some cases where a cave gate is needed, but not very many. Rare instances. I feel like cave gating has gotten out of control.
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