Cavechat.org

Last night while flipping uselessly through channels I stopped at the Sci-fi channel and caught an episode of Ghost Hunters.
In it the guys were in what appeared to be a basement like tunnel or somewhere underground, there were some soda straws hanging here and there along the tunnel ceiling. WAIT! What was that noise?! (they looked around with their feeble flashlights and headlamps...) to determine the source of the mysterious sound, one of them took off his baseball cap and swung at a soda-straw formation that was on the ceiling, knocking it off and to the floor... no, that wasn't the same sound... they went on exploring.

Dunno about you all but I'm gonna write a strongly worded letter to the show's producers about that. Ok, maybe it wasn't in a cave but the location certainly doesn't justify the action. It sends a message that it's okay to intentionally knock those things down for whatever reason.
Bad policy I think, even for paranormal experts.

If you'll be so kind as to post the contact information here, perhaps our fellow members will also write letters of complaint.

I sure will.

I don't have TV - I gave it up about a year ago - but I'll jump right in for several reasons.

SpeleoRover wrote:If you'll be so kind as to post the contact information here, perhaps our fellow members will also write letters of complaint.

I sure will.

I don't have TV - I gave it up about a year ago - but I'll jump right in for several reasons.

Searching for that info right now... http://www.scifi.com/ghosthunters/about/ is the only thing I've found so far... maybe the producers don't WANT to be contacted

Ralph E. Powers wrote:Last night while flipping uselessly through channels I stopped at the Sci-fi channel and caught an episode of Ghost Hunters.
In it the guys were in what appeared to be a basement like tunnel or somewhere underground, there were some soda straws hanging here and there along the tunnel ceiling.

Coincidentally, I also caught some some of the Ghost Hunters episode while mindlessly channel flipping last night. I watched part of their investigation of Fort Delaware. There was some basement footage which included a thermal image of a supposedly ghostly apparition, but I didn't see any soda straws or hear them being broken. I could have just missed that bit, or perhaps it was from another part of the show.

As much as I think it's bad practice to intentionally and needlessly damage natural or other features in abandoned man-made structures like mines, tunnels, buildings, etc... I also think it's a stretch to put this in the same context as damaging formations in caves. On the other hand I'm all for constructive criticism when it's suitably justified, and it might be good to let the producers know this incident could send the wrong message by showing the "actors" intentionally damaging their surroundings.

uh oh, does that mean the portland cement soda straws I collected from the concrete culvert qualify me as a speleovandal?

wyandottecaver wrote:uh oh, does that mean the portland cement soda straws I collected from the concrete culvert qualify me as a speleovandal?

Actually, stal which leach out of concrete and form white soda straws test out as calcite. (As opposed to stalactites of gray dripped concrete.) But speleothems found in vugs, mines, basements along underpasses, under concrete birdbaths, etc. are not protected. I had a calcite or apatite (we didn't test it) stal which formed inside of a root canal gone bad once; it wasn't protected, either. But it was too little to keep.

NZcaver wrote:

Ralph E. Powers wrote:Last night while flipping uselessly through channels I stopped at the Sci-fi channel and caught an episode of Ghost Hunters.
In it the guys were in what appeared to be a basement like tunnel or somewhere underground, there were some soda straws hanging here and there along the tunnel ceiling.

Coincidentally, I also caught some some of the Ghost Hunters episode while mindlessly channel flipping last night. I watched part of their investigation of Fort Delaware. There was some basement footage which included a thermal image of a supposedly ghostly apparition, but I didn't see any soda straws or hear them being broken. I could have just missed that bit, or perhaps it was from another part of the show.

As much as I think it's bad practice to intentionally and needlessly damage natural or other features in abandoned man-made structures like mines, tunnels, buildings, etc... I also think it's a stretch to put this in the same context as damaging formations in caves. On the other hand I'm all for constructive criticism when it's suitably justified, and it might be good to let the producers know this incident could send the wrong message by showing the "actors" intentionally damaging their surroundings.

That is my point sir, thank you. It is a stretch I admit but it is within the same reason. Get into the habit of doing one thing and it carries over. Or others watching the program (and there ARE stupid, easily impressionable people out there as we all know) get the idea that this type of behavior is acceptable and applicable to any place harboring these formations.

I recall reading a story of a cave in France that was shown to speleologists and cavers by it's land owner. A tall walking passage with ceiling to floor length soda straws was among some of the beauty to be found there. However the cavers noticed a disconcerting trail that allowed them to walk through the "forest" of straws and the floor littered with straw debris. When asked, the owner of the cave stated that those things were in his way when he first explored the cave and he simply knocked them out of way.
As I understand it under the Lincoln Memorial in Washington D.C. there are huge soda straws with some reaching ceiling to floor in length. They've been preserved I think. Same principle.
Whist true no everyone can be as PC as we are when it comes to preserving these things of natural beauty the message of conservation/preservation still needs to be carried to whomever may hear it IMO.

I have to agree with NZcaver, but there comes a time when what we think and what we say about "cave" formations forming in man-made structures, won't mean a thing to others. Just that they're a pain...unfortunately! We need to "try" and get the message across, but it just will happen, one way or the other, that they're destroyed. I recall a few situations that have soda straws and formations forming in man-made features, like under one of the bridges--Near Yosemite Falls--in Yosemite Park; and, another was when we had a BOG meeting down in L.A. and a group of us went "Sewerlunking" thanks to the SCG and the city fathers' permission--unfortunately, I never got my arm patch, so guess they're a premium item these days. Another interesting site was the water treatment plant, east of Martinez, CA, where we went through the cooling rooms and voila, there were hundreds of straws on the ceiling. I immediately discussed the issue with the manager/tour guide and he said that they would be knocked down and in a short time, would be replaced, for it was an on-going "problem" of theirs. And, of course, the big discussion that Ralph wrote about was down in the basement of the Lincoln Memorial. From what I can gather, though, that basement has been turned into a gift shop, etc., so maybe someone in the Washington area can let us know for sure.

Forget contacting the producers; if you want to have an impact, contact the advertisers. Write down the product in every ad that runs during the show, particularly any that are specifically sponsoring that show, and tell them how you feel.

They control the money, and they have little or nothing to lose by passing on your concerns to the producers.

Or better yet, contact TAPS directly. Here's their web address: http://www.the-atlantic-paranormal-society.com/

Yes, I admit it, I watch the program and I enjoy it. Sometimes the stuff they show is pretty mundane or hokey, but sometimes it's downright creepy.

As to "tunnel-o-thems", I used to work at a plant in Lansing, IL that had a steam plant across the street from the main building, and a tunnel linked the two. During the winter salt-laden water from the street above would leach through the ceiling and create amazing formations. Had I owned a camera at the time, I would've gotten some neat shots. Eventually someone else found them and wiped them out...