Cave Conservation Cafe Invitation

Cave conservation issues, techniques, questions. Also visit the NSS Cave Conservation and Management Section.

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Postby Cheryl Jones » Oct 29, 2007 11:05 pm

Hey TnCavegrasshopper, :wink:

I'm not trying to be evasive or secretive. And there really are no conspiracies, and nothing to be anxious about. :waving: I just didn't realize that you wanted the detailed details.

Cindy Sandeno, of the Hoosier Nat. Forest, organized the CC Cafe at the USFS Washington DC office, with the goal of promoting the need for integrated strategies for cave and karst resource management, and generally to let folks know that caves and karst are important. (Refer to what she said in the invitation in the initial post in this topic.) Invitations to federal agencies were sent to the DC offices of the USFS, BLM, NPS, EPA, USF&WS, and probably others. The Cafe was sponsored by the NSS and the Indiana Karst Conservancy.

The main event was held in an auditorium in the USDA building, and everyone who attended signed in and received a name tag and packet of cave conservation and management literature. There was much mingling and talking in the foyer and auditorium before we got started. I haven't seen the sign-in sheet but Cindy said she was pleased with who showed up (as far as job titles, responsibilities, and federal agency.)

Cindy opened the event, then a series of speakers gave ~8 minute presentations, accompanied by power point slides. I'll try to remember the lineup and what was said, and apologize now to anyone reading this who spoke and I've forgotten, or whose topic I'm not reporting correctly. (I didn't bring home a program that was given to each attendee when they arrived, and didn't take notes.)

Noted scientist Jean Krejca spoke on cave adaptation. USFS National Coordinator for Cave Resources Jerry Trout spoke on how far the USFS has come in cave management, the value of the partnerships with cavers, and a vision for the need for a greater focus on cave and karst resources. Sandy Trout spoke on cave hydrology and the importance of teaching this to landowners, the public, and in school curricula. NSS Conservation Committee Co-chairman Val Hildreth Werker spoke on the amazing research being done in caves, and the interest NASA has in how this might relate to life on other planets. I'm sure I remember that noted scientist Diana Northrup spoke, but sorry Diana, I can't remember your topic! Perhaps NCKRI?

Caves: Life Under the Forest Floor was introduced by director Dan McGowan, then the film was shown.

Afterwards, a panel was seated on the stage, each first taking a few minutes to talk about their organization as it relates to caves, then answering questions. Again, the target audience wasn't cavers, but federal agency staff for whom caves, karst, and their value are new or little understood topics. Much of what was said cavers have had the opportunity to learn via the NSS News, the Journal, books, at NSS Conventions, and at the National Cave and Karst Management Symposiums.

The people I recall on the panel: A representative from The Nature Conservancy, the NSS Government Liaison, noted bio-speleologists Julian Lewis and Horton Hobbs, Jerry Trout, Jean Krejca, and a couple more. I can see them in my mind's eye.... I'll ask and find out for you, and amend this post.

Then we walked across the street to the USFS office where sandwiches, softies, and deserts were enjoyed by all. Bottles of sparkling cider had Caves: Beneath the Forest Floor labels! Again, much mingling and talking caves.

I can't report substantially on the specific meetings with honchos for I didn't attend and so its not my prerogative. Conservation co-chairs Val and Jim Werker represented the NSS. Additionally, Cavechat is a public forum, so I will not go into any details, name names, or discuss specifics that I learned. Suffice it to say I know the goal was to encourage ways to integrate several areas of the USFS into new strategies for cave and karst resource management, and to raise the awareness of the importance of doing do. For example, cave management should extend to involve those responsible for engineering, geology, hydrology, logging, mining, anthropology, paleontology, etc, in order to effectively protect karst resources, for activities in each of these areas are likely to involve karst, caves, or lava tubes Those on "our side" involved the meetings were pleased with the outcome, and plan to follow up.

I hope that covers pretty much what you wanted to know. Any specific questions?

The NSS regularly participates in meetings, conferences, symposiums, and other events, sometimes as a sponsor, and regularly meets with federal agency officials to talk cave management, even visiting Capitol Hill once a year as part of the AAAS (with which we are affiliated.) A team including the NSS (represented by Val and Jim) visited the offices of two Senators the day before to the CC Cafe. The Cave Conservation Cafe was unusual in that a general invitation went out to cavers.

A copy of the film is available in the NSS AV Library. It would make a great grotto program. Some outstanding photography and interesting information.

Cheryl
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Postby tncaver » Oct 30, 2007 7:34 am

Cheryl,
Thankyou for your response. Sorry for being such a pain in the
rear. I'll PM you for a specific question.
BTW, congrats on your new Moderator job.
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Postby Cheryl Jones » Oct 30, 2007 10:12 am

BTW, congrats on your new Moderator job.


You're scaring me TNCaver! I've been a moderator on this forum for a long while, so I hope you're not saying I've been volunteered and assigned another position when I wasn't looking.... Yikes! :shocked:

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Postby tncaver » Oct 30, 2007 10:42 am

Obviously I should have said congrats on the continuation
of your moderator job. Thanks for the clarification. :kewl:
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Don't feed the troll

Postby JD » Oct 31, 2007 9:28 am

Cheryl, the person who uses the moniker TNCaver is a troll named John Fred Hutchinson. He is a destructive critic who has absolutley nothing positive to contribute - he criticizes, personally attacks conservation groups like TNC and ACCA and their projects and is seriously unbalanced. Please do not respond or feed the on-line troll.

You guys are acting like he is reasonable and really cares about caves. He doesn't. He would rather see any cave destroyed than gated and protected. He has been know to deface cave registers if people he doesn't like have signed them. He is the one who complained he had to walk to Camps Gulf, causing seriously difficulty with the park which had to be smoothed over. He attacked the protection of Zarathustra Cave even though the the idea and funding was by the private landowner.

It is a matter of control. For a few persons like Hutchinson all they care about is controlling access to a cave - if they can't go when and where they want they attack and destroy people who protect caves. These persons have done a lot of damage. They are the ones who raise hell on tag-net and elsewhere whn they do not have a clue what they are talking about. When they heard about Gordon's idea for a conservation cafe they immdeidalty saw it as a plot, a conspicracy to gate caves. Did you see what Hutchinson wrote about it in TAG-NET? He said some really wrong stuff. Then he has the nerve to act like he is a concerned caver on this list. Get real - we have his numnber now. He is, as one person so aptly called it, a "Negatively-bomb."

PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS.

Joseph Douglas
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Postby tncaver » Oct 31, 2007 10:06 am

Joe Douglas,
You have defamed me for no reason other than you do not like it
when I tell the truth. I have never defaced a cave register, sign
or gate. Of course I don't like gates but I realize some are necessary.
If there is a negativity bomb here, you are it.
Someone needs to step up to the plate to convince persons of authority
that access is as valuable an asset to cavers as is protection. Both are
needed but you are blind to that fact.
Joe, your personal dislike for me has clouded your brain.
I had already revealed my identity to Cheryl and Wayne Harrison.
I'm not afraid or ashamed to bring my views to the forefront of
any forum and if you, Joe, choose not to contribute to the discussion
that is your perogative. Defamation of character is uncalled for and
a direct violation of the rules of this forum and most forums.
You have truly stooped to a new low.
John Hutchison NSS11906RE
Last edited by tncaver on Nov 12, 2007 1:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby tncaver » Oct 31, 2007 10:11 am

One more thing, Joe. You need to get your facts
straight. It is the loss of vehicle access
to the camping area at Camps Gulf Branch that I warned
everyone was likely going to happen. And it did. The
hike to the cave isn't that far. The hike to the back of
the cove is a pretty good hike.
BTW, I believe forum rules prohibit personal attacks and
defamation of character. Please don't do it again. But if
you do, at least learn to spell my name right.
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Postby Squirrel Girl » Oct 31, 2007 12:24 pm

Come on guys! Settle down here. Let's not resort to personal attacks. I'd have to look it up, but you might be past the TOS for Cavechat.

You have the right to disagree with someone and not like them, either. And while you can type up disputes, this is getting out of hand. Let's just calm down and stick to business.
Barbara Anne am Ende

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Postby tncaver » Oct 31, 2007 1:01 pm

Thank you Barbara.
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