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Ralph E. Powers wrote:So basically this thought of trying to preserve and clean up what is essentially a cavers' messy oversight is just a joke then eh?
'mmm okay.
We'll just leave it all there and let what unknown microbes and bacteria fester and ruin with whatever possible cross contamination of potential leukemia/cancer killing bacteria yet to be discovered in this cave.
Grandpa Caver wrote:Ralph E. Powers wrote:So basically this thought of trying to preserve and clean up what is essentially a cavers' messy oversight is just a joke then eh?
'mmm okay.
We'll just leave it all there and let what unknown microbes and bacteria fester and ruin with whatever possible cross contamination of potential leukemia/cancer killing bacteria yet to be discovered in this cave.
My feelings exactly! There has to be a better way...even in project caves and if prior abuse in these caves cant be entirely cleaned up, an attempt should still be made wherever possible.
Evan wrote:Grandpa Caver wrote:Ralph E. Powers wrote:So basically this thought of trying to preserve and clean up what is essentially a cavers' messy oversight is just a joke then eh?
'mmm okay.
We'll just leave it all there and let what unknown microbes and bacteria fester and ruin with whatever possible cross contamination of potential leukemia/cancer killing bacteria yet to be discovered in this cave.
My feelings exactly! There has to be a better way...even in project caves and if prior abuse in these caves cant be entirely cleaned up, an attempt should still be made wherever possible.
Whoa, Whoa, Whoa there!!!! First off I would like to know about these "Artifact Dumps".
First off, I was on the Lechuguilla Cave Project (LCP) from 88 till 92, then returned back 97 and I can tell you from first hand experience that dung was always removed, that is where burrito bags came from (Hecker came up with the idea)! There where piss stations in very designated areas, these do smell.
In the first stage of Lechuguilla exploration the trips where 24 to 72 hours long with no base camp. You slept very little (Maybe 2-4hours) on these trips and most of the time very dehydrated so rarely did you have to go number 2. If you did, you did it in a burrito bag. If you puked because of dehydration, you did it in the burrito bag. If you lost a finger it went into the burrito bag. Except for urine, NO BODY PARTS WERE ALLOWED LEFT IN THE CAVE, INCLUDING #2. If you didn’t comply, you where not asked back. There were some cavers that were not asked back, but not because of taking a dump.
In the Rainbow Room which is the end of the Western Borehole a team did find a dung heap and it was removed. It was also put on a stand and given back to its owner.
During LCP the Cave manager was Ron Kerbo. We had a meeting of LCP member cavers that were present:
Section on defecating in the cave: (someone was complaining because they didn't like burrito bags)
Caver: Bats crap in the cave why can't I?
Ron: If you find a 150 LBS bat in the cave, I'll let you crap in the cave.
That was the end of that.
I know of NO ONE that did not comply with that rule.
During the Filming of “Underground Mysteries”, I personally haul out a five gallon Nalgene piss bottle on my back from the Chandler Ballroom, twice. We had a understanding with the park service that NO/NONE/NOTHING waste matter or human artifact would be left in the cave and on final sweep NOTHING was.
I want to know more about these HEAPS. Because what it sounds like is someone currently being lazy and not fessing up to it. Do you want to why I think that is the truth? Because in the four-year stint of going down there I watched some of the original orange flagging decompose, any stray dung heap would be long gone.
Wendy wrote:So why is it ok to pee in the cave and leave it?
Evan wrote:Wendy wrote:So why is it ok to pee in the cave and leave it?
The Park Service allow us to pee in the cave. We carried as much out as possible,
cob wrote:including I was told, 5 gal. buckets, which once filled.... well there it is. Tho I never personally saw one
Evan wrote:I agree with cob, Dehydration was ALWAYS a problem, including on the surface.
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