tncaver wrote:Hey cob, I guess we humans aren't considered natural.
Yeah, I know. I just had to say something after listening to a buddy of mine talk about the "human coprolites" in Mammoth... and what a kick cavers get out of them.
As for the javalina's doing things in the cave...if there is no evidence that they were doing damage before a gate was installed
then why would a gate be needed?
And here comes the rub... What is damage? For some cavers, when an "animal" does it, it is "natural"... but when a human does it, it is "vandalism". I just sense a double standard.
Maybe instead of gating off a cave, a fence or gate could
simply be put across the access road or around a cave, rather than right across the entrance. That would keep ATV's out and maintain the beauty of the entrance.
I hate to say it but, that would not even slow the ATVer's around here down. Some of these people would think nothing at all of riding right thru your living room, if they would not get shot for it.
I think there are ways to protect caves without always having to put a gate on the entrance. Seems to me, a gate on an entrance should be a last resort. And a last resort won't be realized until other methods are tried first. I've not heard of other methods being tried first
on the vast majority of gatings.
In my experience, it is because things have already reached a breaking point.
One particular conservation group prides themselves
on keeping everyone out of their caves and off the lands they acquire. It amazes me that they get so many donations. I just can't see donating money to groups that buy up wonderful places and won't let
anyone see those places
I know the type, and I don't get it. For whom are we saving it? Yeah I know, the "bats", (simmer down folks, my point becomes clear soon) but how do you make people care about "creepy crawly furry ugly bats"? Yeah, WE do, but we are the minority, and the more caves get closed, the smaller minority we become. Who cares when the cavers are gone because there are no caves to go to?
....except for scientists.
who are an even SMALLER minority (that nobody listens to, eg. "global warming")
I for one don't like cave gates but acknowledge that
in some rare cases they are needed.
same here brother...
In my humble opinion there are way more cave gates than there are caves that need them
I agree... but how to tell the difference? And that is where we "dumb cavers" sit.
tom