Contamination of the cave from a dirty cave suit?

[MUD]

ALL of my caving is in generally wet, mud-filled nastiness. I would NOT wear a dirty cave suit into a pristine cave like Lech...the caving I do is nothing like that! I do wash my undersuit regularly so as not to smell

For those of you who think a suit can't be wore out pretty quick...come cave with us for a few months, then I'll have my wife sew you a new suit!

[fuzzy-hair-man]

Unlike fuzzy-hair-man's experience, bats, crickets, and cavefish that I know of have been tracked between nearby caves, all by themselves. Not to mention the rest of the accidental and troglophile traffic going in and out of the cave.

I know and have observed these, my post said some cave biota.

To my knowledge some cave biota will not travel or spread between caves even if they are relatively close together.....

I agree caves in the same general area don't have a huge amount to fear from grotty cavers especially if they are joined by water courses or perhaps linked by a string of caves. But if you are going between distinctly seperate areas there is a danger.

[MUD]

I pretty much cave in the same area all the time. When I do travel, the gear is clean. Not so much for contamination but traveling purposes!

[Ralph E. Powers]

It's generally a good idea to wash caving clothes after any trip anyway.

As I understand it... microbiological life can differ from cave to cave and bringing in the dried mud/dirt from one cave into another can be potentially harmful.

[MUD]

Surely there's a cave biologist reading all of this? PLEASE enlighten me on cross contamination from cave gear. I gotta tell you it seems to me there would a MUCH greater chance of some sort of biological "thing" happening from our breath, hair, dead skin cells, saliva etc??? I feel the same way about seeing someone on a cave trip with shiny, clean gear as they feel about seeing me with dirty gear
ESPECIALLY where I cave! Come join us anytime...clean or dirty...when you're "done" , you'll be filthy, stinky, and completely wore out! But you'll feel real good about it all.

[Teresa]

Good clean shiny gear probably has all sorts of noxious chemicals associated with it (remember, new car smell?). Most soaps aren't good for cave life as they contain surfactants. Never wash a skin breathing salamader in dishwashing liquid.

Still, people belong on the planet, and under it. You are, this very moment, breathing recycled air and when you go to the tap, you drink recycled water. Dirt and soil moves up and down throught the earth's crust. Humans are not alien to the planet.
I just can't get all that excited about bringing in dirt, bugs, skin fragments, dropping hair, sneezing, etc. A cave is not a sterile laboratory. Biology happens all over the world. All biological things are not 'bad'. Food transport has to happen in caves, or everything dies. Excessive food is bad, of course, but does it really matter if a man, or a raccoon brings in some straw, or some outside bugs?
A cave biologist is always going to say that humans change things. A cave microbiologist is always going to say humans in caves are bad for the micro environment. But I'm starting to lose the point of this discussion? Is it really an attempt to justify caving with as few clothes on as possible? (!)

[MUD]

Somebody's with me here I'm done with this one...I'm packing my "dirty" cave gear for another trip to those central PA mud-filled, tight, nasty, wet, holes that we call CAVES....fully clothed!

[hewhocaves]

i suppose another question to ask is "what do you wash your cave clothes with?" i.e. what detergent? Because I'd be more worried about a detergent killing something in a cave than microbes carried across the state line.

i would, however, buy a completely new suit for caves west of the mississippi. it's jsut too different out there.

as for what i do - i wash the coveralls off in the shower to get the mud off. its virtually impossible to get it completely clean this way, but I get the water almost entirely clear. underclothes go through the wash. if there's two trips on succesive days (or a couple of weeks) i usually don't bother. usually, if they are that close, they're probably near geographically.

john

[Hazel]

This discussion has come up in the past and in response I wrote an article about cave microbiology that was in the most recent JCKS:

http://www.caves.org/pub/journal/PDF/V6 ... Barton.htm

The short answer is:

1. Yes, please wash your gear between trips - unless the trip is to the same cave. Research suggests that every cave has a unique microbial ecosystem.

If your gear won't stand up to repeated washing, I suggest you get better gear (I've used Meander and Warmbac oversuits for years and they're doing fine). I would avoid using detergents, I generally just hose my equipment down after a trip, or run it through the washer without soap.

2. Yes, material that falls off of you will impact the cave environment, unfortunately we can't protect a resource until we fully understand it - that is through exploration and mapping.

Minimize all detritus that could fall off - keep long hair tied back, don't shower before caving (it dries your skin out and increases cell shedding) and eat over baggies to minimize leaving crumbs.

Hope that helps,

Hazel

[NZcaver]

i suppose another question to ask is "what do you wash your cave clothes with?" i.e. what detergent? Because I'd be more worried about a detergent killing something in a cave than microbes carried across the state line.

Not sure about you, but most things I wash (either by machine or hand) usually get the soap thoroughly rinsed out before drying...

[NZcaver]

The short answer is:

1. Yes, please wash your gear between trips - unless the trip is to the same cave. Research suggests that every cave has a unique microbial ecosystem

Very interesting, Hazel. Thanks for your input!

[NZcaver]

Surely there's a cave biologist reading all of this? PLEASE enlighten me on cross contamination from cave gear. I gotta tell you it seems to me there would a MUCH greater chance of some sort of biological "thing" happening from our breath, hair, dead skin cells, saliva etc??? I feel the same way about seeing someone on a cave trip with shiny, clean gear as they feel about seeing me with dirty gear
ESPECIALLY where I cave! Come join us anytime...clean or dirty...when you're "done" , you'll be filthy, stinky, and completely wore out! But you'll feel real good about it all.

FYI - a warning about decontaminating your caving gear between trips just came up in the Fungus serious threat to NE bats topic.

[MUD]

Surely there's a cave biologist reading all of this? PLEASE enlighten me on cross contamination from cave gear. I gotta tell you it seems to me there would a MUCH greater chance of some sort of biological "thing" happening from our breath, hair, dead skin cells, saliva etc??? I feel the same way about seeing someone on a cave trip with shiny, clean gear as they feel about seeing me with dirty gear
ESPECIALLY where I cave! Come join us anytime...clean or dirty...when you're "done" , you'll be filthy, stinky, and completely wore out! But you'll feel real good about it all.

FYI - a warning about decontaminating your caving gear between trips just came up in the Fungus serious threat to NE bats topic.

[NZcaver]

FYI - a warning about decontaminating your caving gear between trips just came up in the Fungus serious threat to NE bats topic.

Cavemud,

My recent post wasn't intended to be funny. I thought it would be relevant to show the link between this old discussion and the recent news of a fungus which is spreading between caves and killing off bats in NY. That is all.

[Jeff Bartlett]

You wanna keep a cave pristine? NEVER enter it or go near it!

3/4 of this thread is people trying to come up with excuses why it's OK to be too lazy to clean their gear between trips.

The short-term or long-term damage is obviously a matter of debate, but all this says about you (not you specifically, Cavemud, although I'm obviously picking on one of your quotes here) is that you're not interested in going out of your way to protect the cave environment. Do we have a negative impact on caves by visiting them? Yes. Can we, and should we, do what we can to minimize that impact? Yes.