Cavechat.org

Being above ground next to a smoker sucks (unless I'm at a concert or something) let alone being underground in a small "room" with no ventilation and already out of breath because you just crawled your butt off while inhaling about a pound of dirt dust cause you decided to go last through the dry crawl.

It's bad enough being behind a guy in a crawl who won't stop farting and is seeming to enjoy torturing you with his badly maintained bowels,only to pop out into the much anticipated next "room" where three dudes are smoking and you look over to your buddy with a look that says, "let's mosey along" and he just lies there and farts again! Talk about claustrophobic!

my first experience, and only, with smokers in a cave was in ellisons, at the top of fantastic pit. could smell it all the way from the nuisance climb. nausiating.

Petty Johns is the ideal cave to visit if you want to experience people smoking in a cave. Almost every time I have been there (probably 10 times) I have come across people smoking. It is a real joy, especially when the barometric pressure is equalized and there is no airflow in/out of the cave.

I'm not a fan! We cleaned up smoker/party mess in PettyJohns durning NCRC. The mess near the z bends was amplified by the lingering smoke residue. If spelunkers could only be educated.

I once again question the impact of education upon smokers or litterbugs or imbeciles. If the term spelunker now includes anyone who does anything bad in a cave, we need to examine our adjectival linguistic abilities.

I think some folks need to read "How to win friends and influence people" by Dale Carnegie.

I saw that book on a friend's floor. I was embarassed for him.

Sorry, I'm not trying to be unfriendly. It's just that the "educate people and they'll do the right thing" argument has been repeatedly obliterated by the selfish, uncaring masses.

We won't be educating those that I have seen smoking in Pettyjohns. They are the same people who believe professional wrestling is a real sport.

If you haven't read the book then you shouldn't be feeling sorry for him. Everyone can benefit from the lessons learned in that book. Especially when dealing with people who are ignorant about conservation. Sure you can tell them how stupid they are for smoking in a cave but the goal is to let them realize that themselves without any criticism from the "teacher". That is a skill that most people do not naturally have. Our first reaction is usually along the lines of stupid spelunkers!

I don't cave with smokers very often but I must say that when I do I feel sorry for them, they would be such good cavers if they do not smoke, and I don't only mean because of cave pollution but because you can see they breath with more effort than us (non-smokers), I think their bad habits punish them enough.

This thread has an insane amount of views...

I know , Im just sayin'...

Chads93GT wrote:If you haven't read the book then you shouldn't be feeling sorry for him. Everyone can benefit from the lessons learned in that book. Especially when dealing with people who are ignorant about conservation. Sure you can tell them how stupid they are for smoking in a cave but the goal is to let them realize that themselves without any criticism from the "teacher". That is a skill that most people do not naturally have. Our first reaction is usually along the lines of stupid spelunkers!

I wouldn't dream of telling a smoker, or anyone else (I didn't know ) how stupid they were. That wouldn't be polite. I don't even agree with Brian's determination that wrestling fans are incapable of learning. My point was that educating people (crwaff's plaintive dream) will not make them stop smoking or littering. My issues with the book you endorse are mostly based on a probably unfair judgement of the title. The name of the book suggests that winning friends is some sort of phsychological trickery, that with the given formulas one can get what they want out of others. I always thought you got friends by being a decent person. I've never read it, though. Maybe I will.

No trickery. But you and I both know that the most important way to get people to like you is how you speak to them. The book simply helps you realize that how you approach certain situations will either win people to your way of thinking or turn them off. It's not a book of tricks. Mainly it helps you polish your speaking skills. Something rather important for business folk. It's worth a read.

I have no problem calling someone smoking, in a cave, they are. An idiot. I used to smoke. It was hard to quit but I did it. Can't stand second hand smoke. In a cave. Horrible.

Try being in a cave where you have had idiots light a fire to keep themselves warm. You would be wishing it was only cigarette smoke.

My gawd, what a bunch of pathetic panty waist whiners on this thread. Considering that a bunch of you are hard core serious cave explorers, you sound like a bunch of screaming little girls.