Smokers in a cave

[Ozarkistan]

smoking in a cave is especially dangerous because the entrances rarely meet fire code

[DementedCaver]

Just my two cents worth, I don't like people smoking in caves either....and that goes double when they leave cigarette butts behind.

[tchudson]

I caved quite frequently with JV Van Swearingen for a number of years. He did smoke in cave, but he was always very courteous about it. In fact, when he caved with someone very sensitive to smoke he would sometimes wear a patch if it was a long trip. The only time I've run into an instance of smoking in a cave that was an issue was a caver smoking just inside the entrance of a cave in TAG where all the smoke was being sucked into the cave and down the pit where people were climbing rope. The smoker didn't seem to be too bothered when confronted about it, either.

[NZcaver]

I spotted this sign a few days ago. I think it's a good start...

[TarkioKid]

I spotted this sign a few days ago. I think it's a good start...

*L* Nice to see my people doing something like that. I'm a smoker, but I'm also an environmentalist (not like a psychotic type, just one that wants to keep what natural beauty we have left intact), so I definitely don't smoke in caves. I've never been on a multi-day trip, so I can't comment on anything with that, but I've been in a cave for 12 hours without a smoke, so if I can survive that anyone can. Besides, a vast majority of cave trips i've been on have been with my dad (next year I'm making him drag me to TAG), and he would beat the holy heck out of me if I lit up, as if I didn't already have enough motivation to hold off until outside. I also make a point of packing my butts out, no matter what I'm doing in the outdoors. There's already enough people dirtying up nature, so why add to the problem? (And yes I realize I'm probably preaching to the choir with that, so please don't flame me too hard.)

As far as the "other smoke" goes, I'm not a big fan of anyone consuming alcohol/anything else even slightly mind-altering while in a cave. I'm not gonna say anyone's wrong for doing it, but I prefer to indulge those tastes after being in the cave. That's just my personal preference, if poo happened and I needed to be rescued I'd rather it be cos of an act of God than because I was drunk and did something stupid. Of course, then again I'm still trying to get used to the fact I'm taller than I used to be when I used to go caving all the time, so I have extra reason to be alert. I do have to say I loved the suggestion of using a brownie instead, that had me

[CaveJunkie]

I could care less if someone smokes in a cave but I do appreciate the person asking the group first. Also, if you have any of that 'wacky tobacky' you don't have to ask... just puff puff pass!

[JoeyS]

Also, if you have any of that 'wacky tobacky' you don't have to ask... just puff puff pass!

You might want to ask before lighting that too... You might be caving with LEO or someone else opposed to it for whatever reason...

Fine with me though, so long as you aren't rigging the ropes.

[Steven Johnson]

Also, if you have any of that 'wacky tobacky' you don't have to ask... just puff puff pass!

The first time I went to IXL (a cave that's basically across the street from the UC-Santa Cruz campus), I first thought that a skunk lived in the cave... then I realized, duh, college students.

[Ralph E. Powers]

I could care less if someone smokes in a cave but I do appreciate the person asking the group first. Also, if you have any of that 'wacky tobacky' you don't have to ask... just puff puff pass!

Well you and I would not be caving with each other... On trips that I have led no-one would be under the influence of anything except the caving bug. If I found out that they were, the trip was either over or they would never go caving with me again (or I with them if they were on someone else's trip). Caving is just too risky of a sport as it is for someone not in full peak of their facilities.
Do whatever you wanna do AFTER the trip and OUTSIDE the cave is fine with me, fire it up, drink a six-pack or whatever! I'm wary of those who've indulged the night before (camping) but usually by then the effects have worn off or at least been minimalized that the safety factor is higher than it was when they first started.
Sorry if I'm seemingly too anal about it but hey, I like coming home from my caving trips in one piece and like having the knowledge that everyone else did too. I'm a recovering drug-addict and been clean and sober for the last 18 years and I love the fact that I can remember all my trips with a clear head.

respectfully

[cavemanjonny]

I have to agree with the no smoking weed in caves. I hate it when people do it on trips that I'm on. I've had very stout cavers who've done stuff much harder than me give me crap saying I need to "be more tolerant". I think they completely missed the point.

I agree with you Ralph in that I don't like people I'm with caving under the influence, especially if something bad happens. If it hits the fan I'd much prefer to rely on someone who has all their senses about them.

I have no doubts that people can walk around in the dark with a light on their head and climb ropes and what not while stoned, it's just that their critical thinking skills are not what they would normally be. I don't like doing risky things with people who are busily handicapping themselves.

I couldn't care less if someone smokes, just not where I might need:
a belay
a pick-off
the rope re-rigged and I can't get to it
rescue

My reasons for preferring people didn't smoke are purely selfish .

[MUD]

I was once on a cave trip when someone fired up a cigarette and the leader/owner promptly told them, "Absolutely NO SMOKING in the cave!
An hour later...in the back of the cave...the owner fired up a fatty right in front of everyone and said, "Absolutely NO CIGARETTE SMOKING in the cave, but green buds work nicely!" We didn't quite know what to say...some indulged, some didn't. Would anyone tell the owner of a cave(a really nice one at that!) " You shouldn't do that in here!"?????

[Steven Johnson]

Would anyone tell the owner of a cave(a really nice one at that!) " You shouldn't do that in here!"?????

Unless maybe it was all dead-safe walking passage, yeah, I think I would.

I don't want to be caving with anyone who is impaired. Our lives could depend on people being able to think and react clearly.

Intoxicants of any sort should be saved for the campsite afterwards

[cob]

I was once on a cave trip when someone fired up a cigarette and the leader/owner promptly told them, "Absolutely NO SMOKING in the cave!
An hour later...in the back of the cave...the owner fired up a fatty right in front of everyone and said, "Absolutely NO CIGARETTE SMOKING in the cave, but green buds work nicely!"

I have always found it interesting that so many are against cigs in a cave, but have no problem with a J...

Smoke is smoke, isn't it?

[mgmills]

I don't want to be caving with anyone who is impaired. Our lives could depend on people being able to think and react clearly.

Playing devil's advocate here for the sake of discussion

What about the caver who routinely takes a pain pill before caving due to a painful bad knee? What about the caver who is on drugs to control mood swings or prevent seizures? These people would be considered impaired by some standards but . . . I have actually caved safely with people that did all of these things.

In the case mentioned here about the landowner I think I would have just declined to participate and left it at that. No point risking landowner relations by insulting the owner. For the record . . . I'm a nurse and due to licensing requirements I don't partake anywhere anyway.

[Ralph E. Powers]

Unless maybe it was all dead-safe walking passage, yeah, I think I would.

I don't want to be caving with anyone who is impaired. Our lives could depend on people being able to think and react clearly.

Intoxicants of any sort should be saved for the campsite afterwards

Even a dead-safe walking passage... look at your wording here... DEAD-safe... Do not rocks fall without warning in caves? Does not the ceiling collapse suddenly? We're not always around when these things happen but they DO happen. Someone walking down one of those "dead-safe" passages stops suddenly to light their smoke (whatever it is) and splat! But then someone walking down the same passage stops to take a drink of their water or to take a picture... same thing.

You're absolutely correct that intoxicants of any sort should be saved for the campsite afterwards. Likewise those who are on prescription meds... well again it boils down to common sense. If they know that their drugs would impair them in the slightest then they need to consider heavily the consenquences of whatever they do (or not do) should anything happen.
Trip leaders should be aware of the emotional, mental and physical state of everyone entering a cave with them.
I've gone with diabetics who had done well and one person confessed to epilepsy after the trip... but they took their meds and watched "themselves" for signs of triggers and whatever.
But the subject is smoking in caves. I've gone 6-8 hours or more on numerous trips without smoking. I survived ... I think everyone else (who smokes) can too.