Smokers in a cave

[CKB69]

I have fought this damn addiction for years.
I even tried the nicotine gum.
Started back smoking and I am up to 2 packs a day .
Back in my formative caving years,it was just a minor annoyance to most,but has become almost as bad as spraypainting,or,taking formations.
I remember many occasions where the group rested after a near-sump,and the most popular person was the one with a carbide and semi-dry cigarettes.

I no longer smoke in caves,but,the entrance area may be a bit hazy..

[Cheryl Jones]

Within the context of cave conservation, how does smoking in a cave differ from leaving litter or graffiti? Or peeing in a passage? Or building a fire at the entrance of a cave? And other such deliberate activities that upset our sense of cave conservation.

And given the toxic fumes from a cigarette (or whatever is being smoked) should't we prefer the cavers simply wrote their name on the wall or dropped a piece of paper? At least the next caver in could pick up the litter, but s/he can't clean the air.

Just something to think about.

Cheryl

[Evan G]

And given the toxic fumes from a cigarette (or whatever is being smoked) should't we prefer the cavers simply wrote their name on the wall or dropped a piece of paper? At least the next caver in could pick up the litter, but s/he can't clean the air.

Hmmm, No! I know it is just something to think about. Just thinking the amount of fumes (which are not toxic to the cave because it is not alive, I think they have been through worst) are small in comparson to an aerosal can (aka. wrote their name with what). The sad thing about caving is that we are the intruders and just breathing affects the environment (CO2 + orgainics). Smoking in a cave, I feel is just all round not a good idea ... in a cave or not.

I quit smoking not because I wanted too but because I want to grow old. I love life and want to experience it to the fullest. I saw how it affected my friendships, relationships and also my daily life. I was surprised by the daily habit on how much it took out of my life. So one day I said no more and thru it out of my life and mind. Anytime I had an urge, I worked out or consired it my enemy. I wanted it out of my body. Well, I should stop rambling. Good luck to all with the habit. But remember this: a chemical has more control on your body than your mind does. I think that piss me off the most.

[Wayne Harrison]

I no longer smoke in caves,but,the entrance area may be a bit hazy..

I ran into this problem with a smoker once. He was in a hurry to get out of the cave and we trucked for the entrance (probably regular speed for him but "trucking" for me). I thought he was getting claustrophobic. He was up and out of the final climb to the entrance while I was still negotiating the gate.

As I walked toward the entrance (still in the cave) I detected the heavy smell of cigarette smoke, which ruined the boost I get when I first smell the green earth after hours in a cave.

It turns out, he was near the cave entrance but the cave was blowing in... sucking all the cigarette smoke into the cave. I had never run into that problem before. I suppose nicotine gum could help in that type of situation.

[chh]

I smoke, but not in caves. Smoking in caves really bothers me actually. I'm an electric caver as well. We already do enough just being there surveying, or just enjoying the cave. Why increase the impact? I've been on overnight trips in caves too. Didn't smoke then either. I don't buy the "I can't wait" excuse. If I see people smoking in a cave, I tell them they shouldn't, and I feel very strongly about it.
Caves are definitely a "no smoking" area. If you were in the no smoking section of a nice restaurant, would you light up anyway? No. You would either be respecting the ettiquite of the place, or you would not want to deal with the other patrons being angry at you. I'm the first to give a smoker a tongue lashing for smoking in a cave, and usually the first (and often only) person to light up once we're back at the car getting out of our gear......

[itabot]

I ran into this problem with a smoker once.

Oh I knew it was comming! Piss off, Wayne!

[Wayne Harrison]

The topic is smokers/smoking in caves. Feel free to post your thoughts about this subject.

[mgmills]

I think the "impact" of smoke on the cave probably varies from cave to cave and region to region. I do think consideration of ones caving group is important.

A number of years ago I was caving with a group of about 12 poeople. We were in a cave that had an approximately 20 tall chimney to climb. The chute was rather wide in places and my 5'4" height left me pretty "stretched out" while climbing. When I was about half way up in a wide spot I learned why they call it a "chimney climb". Someone at the bottom of the chute lit up a cigarette and the chimney was "drawing" the smoke which caused me to start coughing. Have you ever had a "coughing fit" while doing an exposed chimney climb? It isn't fun; I really thought I was about to fall. Fortunately someone else realized what was happening and had the smoker put out the cigarette. The offender later apologized for lighting up.

[Lava tuber]

I smoke I know that is bad but never in a cave. I have been in caves that I wanted to smoke after some time but that is what the nic gum is for!!!! it works for caves, long plane rides to Africa - Israel - England - Canada

But I will admit very sadly, that when I went to Israel some time ago when I was younger I went to the Bell Caverns and I smoked a cig about 50 feet into the cave with the tour guide but I look back at that even though is was an awsome time in the caves being so young that is the moment I regret.. and will never do agian

[Mike Rz]

I don't have a problem with someone lighting up in a cave as long as I can stand up and not hit my head on the ceiling and they pack out the butts. I vaguely remember that in the "The Longest Cave" someone smoked a pipe. Whew!

'course then I don't have a problem with microblasting, caving in winter or putting my footprints in a virgin passage.

I do have a problem with duct tape. It always ends up on the floor.

I say its time for a poll. Microblasting vs. smoking

[graveleye]

I say its time for a poll. Microblasting vs. smoking

[kvart]

I say its time for a poll. Microblasting vs. smoking

Can we smoke it over first?

[NZcaver]

Microblasting wins every time.
Unlike smoking, at least blasting HAS a practical purpose.

I have zero tolerance for smokers who selfishly pollute the air in caves (or cave entrances), and in eating and drinking establishments and public buildings etc. Most states finally seem to be getting tough on public smoking - great! Just to be clear, I have no problem with genuine considerate smokers lighting up only where and when their smoke doesn't cause offense to anyone else. Then they're only damaging their own health (and potentially becoming a burden on the health-care system, but that's another story...)

I'd like to think that any cavers who smoke are considerate enough to hold off until they're well outside the cave again. It's interesting that smokers on multi-day expeditions (like Lech) are the fastest damn cavers I've ever seen when they're on their way back to the surface for their long-awaited "fix"...

[Ralph E. Powers]

I'd like to think that any cavers who smoke are considerate enough to hold off until they're well outside the cave again. It's interesting that smokers on multi-day expeditions (like Lech) are the fastest damn cavers I've ever seen when they're on their way back to the surface for their long-awaited "fix"...

True, and at least we won't be holding up the rest of the group... still, be assurred that there are many of us who aren't single-mindedly trying to boogie on out of the cave quick as we can without safety in mind. Knowing that I got a smoke waiting for me is the motivation but I'll want to get there in one piece and alive (along with the rest of my cohorts). After all a rescue can take many hours and even days... how grouchy do you think I'll be then? Likewise with the knowledge that once I'm out of the cave I don't think the paramedics are going to let me light up and wait til I'm done before putting me into the ambulance.

No, I'll be quick but I'll be safe.

Besides I'm going to be quitting anyway so no worries 'bout that.

[Buford Pruitt]

Martha said, "I am one of those weird non-smokers who associates mostly with people who do smoke (haven't figured out how that happens) ...

I know how that happens, Martha: You cave in TAG. Lotsa cig smokers in TAG. Lots. Lots. Come caving down here in Florida and you'll find just the opposite. I sympathize with smokers, though, as I smoked many years ago, and even though I smoked for only 7 years, quitting was the hardest thing I ever voluntarily did.

Funny that no one has mentioned funny smoke in caves.