I am shocked that people could put tons of graffiti in caves

Cave conservation issues, techniques, questions. Also visit the NSS Cave Conservation and Management Section.

Moderator: Moderators

I am shocked that people could put tons of graffiti in caves

Postby JonSidneyB » Apr 20, 2006 7:36 pm

I was at Buckner's cave near Bloomington Indiana last weekend. It was sort of a trial run at using equipment to clean up graffiti off of the walls and such.

As I went through the cave I saw so much of it. What really shocked me was that the biggest collection of graffiti I saw in the cave was past a 300ft crawl. Some of the vandals put alot of effort into their destruction. I always thought of vandals as being a bit lazy. I guess I was wrong.

I hate graffiti when ever I see it. I grew up in places there it really does not exist but now I see it in small towns now. I bothers me when I see it on buildings as such a waste of effort and defacing someones property, but in a cave. This is awfull. I guess this has been done in a number of caves but I had no idea until I saw this one.
User avatar
JonSidneyB
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 66
Joined: Mar 22, 2006 11:17 am
Location: Indiana
  

Postby batrotter » Apr 20, 2006 9:22 pm

Buckner Cave is probably one of the most defaced caves in the US. Open access and being so close to a raucus college town led to it's almost total destruction. College kids and partying have played hell on the cave. Fortunately, efforts are being made to rehabilitate the cave.
batrotter
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 530
Joined: Sep 6, 2005 9:20 am
Location: Columbus, Indiana
Name: Bruce Trotter
NSS #: 27849RL
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Indiana Cave Survey
  

Buckners Spray Paint

Postby CaverScott » Apr 21, 2006 7:21 am

Yes indeed, it is a shame. If memory serves, the NSS had a survey in the 80's and Buckners won, hands down, as the most vandalized cave East of the Mississippi. When some Indiana cavers visited the cave voted for the western "honors," they realized Buckners had the top USA "honors." What a shame. :cry:

Want to see a photo of one part?

http://www.angelfire.com/in3/caving/buc ... ar1925.jpg

http://www.angelfire.com/in3/caving/buc ... ar1927.jpg
User avatar
CaverScott
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 1132
Joined: Sep 6, 2005 7:38 am
Location: Birmingham, Alabama (TAG!)
NSS #: 19797L
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Birmingham CIG SCCi IKC
  

Buckners Cave Use Policy

Postby CaverScott » Apr 21, 2006 7:24 am

Needless to say, I was very pleased to see the formation of the Buckners Cave Conservancy.

The cave needs care and this Conservancy may be just the thing. Here is the new access information courtesy of the IU Spelunking Club Web site:

Buckner's Cave Use Policy
Obtaining Permission
• Normal access time is from 7am to 9pm.
• As this is a Conservancy, all visitors to the cave and land above are required to use minimal impact techniques and obtain permission prior to visitation.
• Permission may be obtained by sending an email 1 week in advanced for non-members of the Conservancy (or 24 hours in advanced for Conservancy members).

**It is important to note that permission does not guarantee access. Granting access falls under the discretion of the members of the board or the caretaker at the time of arrival.
**Prior approval, preferably in the form of an email, will be needed starting on December 2005.

Ground Rules
• All visitors must sign in at the kiosk.

• A liability waiver must be signed by each member of the group before entering the cave.

• Caving group size is a minimum of 3 adults unless otherwise approved by the executive board. At least one person in the group is required to have sufficient knowledge of the cave to avoid becoming lost. Groups containing minors shall have at least one adult for every 5 minors and must have the minimum of 3 adults. Groups of more than 10 individuals need to apply for a special use permit.

• All cavers must wear helmets with chinstraps and each carry three independent sources of light while in the cave. It is recommended that at least one of the lights be helmet mounted.

• Modification to the cave requires permission by the executive board. The making of any marks on cave walls, ceilings, floors, or rocks is also prohibited except by permission of the executive board.

• All trash must be carried out of the cave and off of the property.

• Alcohol and other intoxicants are completely prohibited in the cave. Alcohol use is prohibited on the property except by special permission from the executive board. Anyone witnessed drinking or partaking in intoxicants or illegal substances on the property will be asked to leave and may have membership revoked and banned from further access to the property at the discretion of the executive board.

• Smoking and other tobacco use is prohibited in the cave.

• Overnight camping is restricted to 3 nights in any month. Firewood must be brought to the property and no live plants or trees are to be cut for making fires. Campfires are to be kept small. Camping in the cave is discouraged and may be done by permission from the executive board.

• Gathering plants or forest products is discouraged except for those on the approved list. Gathering of the approved plants and forest products must be done using minimal impact techniques.

• Any group charging money for participation in the trips must have a special use permit and approval by the executive board and Richard Blenz. Groups may be required to show proof of liability insurance which specifically names the Richard Blenz Nature Conservancy, Inc, its officers, and Richard Blenz as coinsured and indemnified. This type of use of the property is highly discouraged. People pooling money for common expenses are exempted.

http://www.indiana.edu/~iusc/caving.htm ... e%20Policy
User avatar
CaverScott
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 1132
Joined: Sep 6, 2005 7:38 am
Location: Birmingham, Alabama (TAG!)
NSS #: 19797L
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Birmingham CIG SCCi IKC
  

Re: I am shocked that people could put tons of graffiti in c

Postby Ralph E. Powers » Apr 24, 2006 12:22 am

JonSidneyB wrote:I was at Buckner's cave near Bloomington Indiana last weekend. It was sort of a trial run at using equipment to clean up graffiti off of the walls and such.

As I went through the cave I saw so much of it. What really shocked me was that the biggest collection of graffiti I saw in the cave was past a 300ft crawl. Some of the vandals put alot of effort into their destruction. I always thought of vandals as being a bit lazy. I guess I was wrong.

I hate graffiti when ever I see it. I grew up in places there it really does not exist but now I see it in small towns now. I bothers me when I see it on buildings as such a waste of effort and defacing someones property, but in a cave. This is awfull. I guess this has been done in a number of caves but I had no idea until I saw this one.

Yes, practically almost every cave-state has a cave (or sadly three) that's been heavily vandalized. Hence for some the heavy secretcy that ticks off quite a few "non-cavers" aka Spelunkers. At the present laws that will show a heavy punishment (fines/jails/community service) may help deter vandalism but IMO it's only limited.
There are people who-just-don't-care! So what to do about them. Hope that we can catch them some day and levy a heavy fine and some jail time on them. But for some of those few it'll probably only tick them off some more and they'll go do it again.
IMO the best solution is to "catch-'em young." By cavers getting more involved with youth groups and letting them know that this is a wrong and terrible thing to do it may plant a seed when they grow to be teenagers and are out of high-school and one of their (drinking) budddies offers to "decorate" a cave, they'll stand up and say: "naw dude that's stupid, let's go do something else..."
Maybe it's a pipe dream, maybe it'll be a reality that will hopefully spread to the next generation and the next and the next.
In the meantime, people who are sincerely interested and willing to preserve and do the work will probably have to jump through hoops and be patient before some Grotto members begin trusting them to show this or that (ungated but guarded) cave. All for the sake of keeping the paint and trash out of the caves that we love so much.
Without the possibility of death, adventure is not possible. ~ Reinhold Messner


http://ralph.rigidtech.com/albums.php
User avatar
Ralph E. Powers
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 2101
Joined: Sep 10, 2005 5:48 pm
Location: Chattanooga, TN
NSS #: 37616
  

Re: Buckners Spray Paint

Postby Squirrel Girl » Apr 24, 2006 8:00 am

Yeah, Scott, I wanna see a photo. But when I click on your links, I get a "roadblock.jpg" and the window is empty. However, if I cut and past the URL into the browser, then I can see the picture.
Barbara Anne am Ende

"Weird people are my people."
User avatar
Squirrel Girl
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 3162
Joined: Sep 5, 2005 5:34 am
Location: Albuquerque, NM
NSS #: 15789
  

Re: Buckners Spray Paint

Postby CaverScott » Apr 24, 2006 8:57 am

Squirrel Girl wrote:Yeah, Scott, I wanna see a photo. But when I click on your links, I get a "roadblock.jpg" and the window is empty. However, if I cut and past the URL into the browser, then I can see the picture.


That is weird. I tested them right after I posted it and they worked great. Glad you found a way around the roadblock. I wanted to post the photos but since I didn't own them, I thought it best to provide a link.
User avatar
CaverScott
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 1132
Joined: Sep 6, 2005 7:38 am
Location: Birmingham, Alabama (TAG!)
NSS #: 19797L
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Birmingham CIG SCCi IKC
  

Re: Buckners Spray Paint

Postby Squirrel Girl » Apr 24, 2006 9:00 am

Scott Fee wrote:
That is weird. I tested them right after I posted it and they worked great. Glad you found a way around the roadblock. I wanted to post the photos but since I didn't own them, I thought it best to provide a link.
Very weird, because THIS time when I clicked on them, they showed correctly. Oh, well! Better that they work. :shock:
Barbara Anne am Ende

"Weird people are my people."
User avatar
Squirrel Girl
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 3162
Joined: Sep 5, 2005 5:34 am
Location: Albuquerque, NM
NSS #: 15789
  

Buckner Cave Graffiti Removal Project

Postby deverton » Apr 24, 2006 10:08 am

Indeed, a project is underway using the cave sandblasting equipment set up by Ray Keeler (and now owned by the Peppersauce Cave Conservation Project) to remove graffiti from Buckner Cave. I encourage anyone interested in supporting or participating in the project to contact me for further information. The Richard Blenz Nature Conservancy, which owns and manages the cave, has a website with a link which will be used to post ongoing project reports and photos located at:
http://www.caves.org/grotto/big/rbnc/Gr ... emoval.htm

Dave Everton
Project Coordinator
Dave Everton
Bloomington, IN
deverton
Infrequent Poster
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Sep 20, 2005 12:14 pm
Location: Bloomington, IN
  

Postby graveleye » Apr 24, 2006 12:16 pm

anyone seeing White River Cave in Georgia will be instantly nauseated. I went there once and they had painted the whole first room neon orange. Pathetic.

Worst problem is that it eventually can lead to complete closure of a cool place to visit. Take for instance the Kingston Saltpeter Cave also in Georgia. It was in bad shape from the locals and vandals. Now its protected as an NSS preserve which is good, but even non-vandalizing, serious cavers dont get a chance to enter. THANKS A LOT PUNKS! I'd give a pretty penny to go there again, but that chance has been ruined by moronic, beer toting spraypainters with no brains.

I guess I have no patience for this sort of nonsense. I think the punishment for vandalizing a cave should be even more severe than it is now. It might seem harsh, but I dont really care what happens to the idiots who do this kind of thing.
ad astra per aspera

http://www.myspace.com/jamthecontrols

The views expressed in this post are not necessarily those of any organization I am affiliated with.

Become a sustaining member of the SCCI
User avatar
graveleye
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 2934
Joined: Mar 14, 2006 11:12 am
Location: Georgia, USA
Name: Kevin Glenn
NSS #: 57238RL
  

Postby JonSidneyB » Apr 26, 2006 2:01 pm

Hi Dave,

We will be back to help some more. We would like to see it cleaned up as well.

Oh, some was confused by my avatar...thats not me, thats my girlfriend, she was at the clean up as well.
User avatar
JonSidneyB
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 66
Joined: Mar 22, 2006 11:17 am
Location: Indiana
  

Postby Noobiecavin » Apr 27, 2006 7:05 pm

Wow and I thought the caves I know were bad. (alton river road caves) But that was ALOT of trash in comparison. I Just started getting into caving and those caves are the only ones ive been able to find. Cause the only way to find these very cool caves the ones that are not filled with garbage and paint is to talk to people who have been there. SO i joined this board tryin to find some more stuff to explore. Me and my people who are also enjoying this stuff are located in north county.
Noobiecavin
Occasional Poster
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Apr 27, 2006 5:28 pm
  

Buckner's Cave trash

Postby caverd » Apr 28, 2006 2:42 pm

Buckner's Cave was my first wild cave about 16 years ago. I too was struck by the amount of disrespect this cave had seen. As bad as the spray paint is, the empty booze containers throughout the entire cave (isn't it about 3 miles long?) blew me away. Containers were everywhere! You couldn't take a step without walking on a crushed can or broken glass. I simply couldn't believe that someone would want to carry beer or anything else like it that far. The crawlway between the entrance room and the rest of the cave (the map says it's 600', maybe not quite that long) should discourage people from using the cave as a place to party, but they did it anyway. About 12 years ago, I vowed never to go back. Since then, I've been told that a lot of the trash has been carried out. It's good to hear that someone is making an effort to do some restoration in the cave.
User avatar
caverd
Occasional Poster
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Sep 19, 2005 7:00 am
Location: Evansville, IN
  

Postby Lava tuber » May 3, 2006 10:54 am

Indeed, a project is underway using the cave sandblasting equipment

I have never used sandblasting equipment would you need alot of airhoses to make it in a cave about 400 feet or is there another way.
just trying to think of a way to get rid of "welcome to hell" in one of our cool skylite caves
Lava tuber
Occasional Poster
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Mar 5, 2006 7:17 pm
  

Postby Lava tuber » May 3, 2006 10:55 am

opps how did that happen? o well
Lava tuber
Occasional Poster
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Mar 5, 2006 7:17 pm
  

Next

Return to Conservation Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users