Poll: Raising money to purchase entrances

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Would you be willing to pay for membership? (Select More than 1)

Poll ended at Feb 22, 2012 12:41 pm

Yes, I would be willing to pay a lifetime membership of up to $200 for a chapter with one cave.
1
10%
Yes, I would be willing to pay a lifetime membership if it was more than $200 for a chapter with one cave.
1
10%
Yes, I would pay a yearly membership if it was less than $15 per year.
1
10%
Yes, I would pay a yearly membership of up to $30 per year.
1
10%
No, Caves should be free.
3
30%
I would be willing to to pay an lifetime membership to a new chapter every year.
0
No votes
I would be willing to do a yearly membership to more than one chapter each year.
0
No votes
I do not live in Kentucky, so I would NOT be willing to join.
2
20%
I don not live in Kentucky, but I would be willing to join to protect caves and maintain access.
1
10%
 
Total votes : 10

Poll: Raising money to purchase entrances

Postby caver.adam » Feb 8, 2012 12:41 pm

If there was an organization in Kentucky that bought caves and provided members access for scientific research, education, and preservation, would you be willing to pay money to support that organization and access its caves.
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Re: Poll: Raising money to purchase entrances

Postby MUD » Feb 8, 2012 1:08 pm

What about recreation, exploration?
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Re: Poll: Raising money to purchase entrances

Postby BrianC » Feb 8, 2012 2:27 pm

sampson.adam wrote:If there was an organization in Kentucky that bought caves and provided members access for scientific research, education, and preservation, would you be willing to pay money to support that organization and access its caves.

There you go, keep all the research in Ky, and leave the rest of the country alone! Wait, that wasn't on the list. Yes it was, sort of. Well just add it to the list then.
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Re: Poll: Raising money to purchase entrances

Postby wyandottecaver » Feb 8, 2012 5:18 pm

I agree,

without recreational access (even if controlled) Im not in. The IKC in Indianaa is a great example of a organization that does all these things. I would absolutely support a comparable group in KY...note that I in no way accept the ACCA as comparable to anything except a gate for pay organization, and my misgivings with the IKC are when they tend to emulate that strategy.
I'm not scared of the dark, it's the things IN the dark that make me nervous. :)
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Re: Poll: Raising money to purchase entrances

Postby tncaver » Feb 8, 2012 8:14 pm

wyandottecaver wrote:note that I in no way accept the ACCA as comparable to anything except a gate for pay organization, and my misgivings with the IKC are when they tend to emulate that strategy.


Cavers take note of the statement above. Is this what you really want? Before you support ACCA consider the consequences. One of those
consequences might be NEVER getting to visit your favorite cave again.
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Re: Poll: Raising money to purchase entrances

Postby David Grimes » Feb 8, 2012 8:33 pm

There are many similar organizations that have great policies in place for visiting their caves. You should definitely look into the way they raise money. It appears to me that you want to start an organization similar the IKC but your hoping to maybe raise enough money to purchase the organizations first cave? I am not sure if that is your goal but since your options seem like your trying to raise money immediately rather than a $20 a year membership. If your goal is to raise enough money to purchase a cave then I would say your going to have a difficult time unless you are willing to contribute a significant portion of the cost.

I believe some organizations have used a sponsor type program where a person donates some money to sponsor a portion of the land purchase which is broken up to make the cost affordable. If your goal is to become a large organization with many properties you will likely want to look into becoming a non-profit which includes some fairly significant costs itself.

Back to the original topic, I am not a fan of allowing only members to visit caves owned by a group. I believe if you allowed access to all cavers using a permit system similar to the IKC you would be more likely to find sponsors for future purchases who may not wish to maintain a yearly membership. Personally I would donate money to responsible group of cavers to purchase a cave if they agreed to maintain open access at least on a permit system, even if the group was not in my area.
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Re: Poll: Raising money to purchase entrances

Postby caver.adam » Feb 8, 2012 11:52 pm

Ok, so the reason I left recreation out is that recreation doesn't qualify an organization to be a non-profit (legal mumbo-jumbo). I absolutely mean for recreation to occur...
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Re: Poll: Raising money to purchase entrances

Postby Jon » Feb 9, 2012 2:56 am

Responsible recreation is what gets people involved. Without people going "Cool, this needs to be protected" you get a bunch (NOT ALL) of people who have no real experience. While you can be taught what a car is & HOW to drive it in a classroom, untill you have real seat of the pants wheel time you are clueless. If you only drive under ideal conditions in a controlled enviroment you haven't a clue as to handling, performance or economy. Recreational cavers (responsible ones) are needed as they often see a far bigger picture in a cave than someone who doesn't love them and is only looking for one thing or one thing at a time and only on a limited basis.

Would I pay a fee? It's a slippery slope but maybe....if I knew it was a worthwhile cave and there would not be Jerkus Americanous being stupid messing things up for all eternity.....and there weren't too many power trip rules that made little or no sense in the real world...Also what would the limits be? One trip a year? Two? By reservation and only one in at a time?

Not enough info to give a firm answer.

My definition of a recreational caver might not be the same as yours, most of my friends are recreational cavers, no "Degree", we help with conservation, restoration, help with scientific projects. ...then there are short timers who lose interest quickly and move on to the next thing and there are occasional cavers, those who only go once in a while as opposed to every chance they get. And of coarse there are spelunkers....not even going to go there :laughing:
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Re: Poll: Raising money to purchase entrances

Postby jeffkruse » Feb 9, 2012 8:58 am

tncaver wrote:
wyandottecaver wrote:note that I in no way accept the ACCA as comparable to anything except a gate for pay organization, and my misgivings with the IKC are when they tend to emulate that strategy.


Cavers take note of the statement above. Is this what you really want? Before you support ACCA consider the consequences. One of those
consequences might be NEVER getting to visit your favorite cave again.


+1

Some of the caves managed here by the Fideicomiso are almost impossible to get permission to go into and are very restrictive.
The Fideicomisos mission sounds great and wonderful but you can’t get into their caves:
"The Conservation Trust of Puerto Rico is a private, non-profit organization whose mission is to protect and enhance the Island’s natural resources. The Trust carries out this mission through the acquisition and donation of lands of great ecological, aesthetic, historic and cultural value, and the establishment of conservation easements. As part of its mission, the Trust develops programs aimed at educating the public about environmental issues and the need to protect and conserve our natural resources. Through its reforestation program, Árboles… más árboles (A+A), the Trust produces and distributes native tree species that help promote the Island’s biological diversity. The only beneficiary of The Conservation Trust is the people of Puerto Rico. "
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