Theoretical poll

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If someone in your group "accidentally" broke a delicate formation unknowingly, you would:

Take a few deep breaths and let it go.
19
59%
Administer a few hours of conservation babble and some scolding.
1
3%
Inflict physical punishment upon resurfacing.
1
3%
Skip their phone number next time you plan a caving trip.
0
No votes
Reveal them on cavechat for humiliation purposes.
1
3%
Immediately repair it with super-glue you keep in your cave bag.
1
3%
Tell them it's o.k., everyone will take it to the grave.
1
3%
Other.(Describe in a post.)
8
25%
 
Total votes : 32

Theoretical poll

Postby SuckinOnSodaStraws » Dec 6, 2011 3:18 pm

Surely through out a serious caver's travels, it is nearly inevitable one or more caves could receive some damage even from careful exploration. How would you handle someone in your group destroying a delicate formation? This is just theoretical, so let's hear those honest opinions. :grin:
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Re: Theoretical poll

Postby SuckinOnSodaStraws » Dec 6, 2011 3:25 pm

My opinion is, knowledge is power. If someone with you is serious enough to be a frequent caving companion, it is well worth teaching them the importance of "cave softly". I've had many discussions with people who have never caved before, and unfortunately most will start asking about bringing back "cave crystals". At this point, I usually make a disgusted face and tend to clam-up on the caving chat.
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Re: Theoretical poll

Postby Chads93GT » Dec 6, 2011 3:34 pm

sh*t happens
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Re: Theoretical poll

Postby SuckinOnSodaStraws » Dec 6, 2011 3:40 pm

Chads93GT wrote:sh*t happens

Haha. That would be considered an "Other." vote. :laughing:
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Re: Theoretical poll

Postby LukeM » Dec 6, 2011 3:42 pm

It all depends on what their reaction is.
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Re: Theoretical poll

Postby SuckinOnSodaStraws » Dec 6, 2011 3:43 pm

Okay, so let's say their reaction is just a "blank stare" at you.
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Re: Theoretical poll

Postby LukeM » Dec 6, 2011 3:51 pm

I'd check their pulse. :laughing:

Seriously though, I'd probably just ask them to try to be more careful and take it from there. If it was obviously hard to avoid the formation I'd probably give a reaction closer to Chad's or more likely just reassure them that it happens sometimes.
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Re: Theoretical poll

Postby David Grimes » Dec 6, 2011 3:52 pm

I guess since you specified "accidentally" it changes things a bit. We had a similar topic a while back about destroying formations for exploration. The topic was something along those lines anyway. It seemed a lot of people would destroy a formation if it meant accessing virgin cave so I would assume those same cavers would not be angry if someone accidentally broke a formation.

I personally try my very best to safeguard formations by being careful and making sure people behind me know to watch out if there is a formation that could be damaged by us passing through. I have seen numerous caves where formations have been broken off to make a crawling path through areas with dense clusters of formations.

After all that I would have to say if the person is a responsible caver that I have trusted enough to take to a nice decorated cave then a broken formation was likely a true accident and sometimes that will happen but I would still take them caving again. Honestly can any caver say positively they have never broken or otherwise damaged a formation by accident. I have accidentally bumped formations while crawling and such. To my knowledge I have never actually damaged a formation but I might have and just not noticed, everyone makes mistakes.
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Re: Theoretical poll

Postby Chads93GT » Dec 6, 2011 4:53 pm

Life is to short to get bent out of shape over an accidental piece of calcite being deformed from someone slipping, falling, or being too talling. ;)
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Re: Theoretical poll

Postby caveflower » Dec 6, 2011 5:01 pm

I was in a very beautiful passage in an unnamed cave. The passase was just full of soda straws. took my helmet off and was moving through the passage very carefully. Low and behold I had to sneeze. Took out about 5 straws. I felt so bad. The look on my fellow cavers faces could have killed. But like Chad said sh%# happens.
Caving is fun but people are always more important.
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Re: Theoretical poll

Postby GroundquestMSA » Dec 6, 2011 5:04 pm

I am always reminding everyone with me to be careful over and over again. If they nonetheless break something out of carelessness or disrespect, as has happened, I get a bit upset. If I get the feeling that a person is not developing any respect, I am not going to bring them along for future trips.
On the other hand, I have been in places where it is extremely easy to accidently break something, or where you have to choose between risking damage or turning around. In these cases I'm not going to be angry at anyone for an honest mistake.
I remember a trip where I repeatedly warned the other cavers to be cautious, then I knocked three or four very delicate stalactites of the ceiling with one brush of my hand. I was saddened by what I did, but I realized that I should be slow to wrath with others who may have similar mishaps.

David Grimes wrote:We had a similar topic a while back about destroying formations for exploration. The topic was something along those lines anyway. It seemed a lot of people would destroy a formation if it meant accessing virgin cave so I would assume those same cavers would not be angry if someone accidentally broke a formation.


Right now I am faced with the option to remove two small formations in order to continue a survey of virgin cave. I'll look for this topic to see what the general feeling on the matter is.
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Re: Theoretical poll

Postby Chads93GT » Dec 6, 2011 5:15 pm

The stabilization of formations for survey is sensitive...... Sort of like fight club.
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Re: Theoretical poll

Postby SuckinOnSodaStraws » Dec 6, 2011 5:27 pm

Interesting. Now, knowing the people in my group of cavers... We would have to raise some hell about it just because we like to give eachother sh*t.
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Re: Theoretical poll

Postby wyandottecaver » Dec 6, 2011 5:37 pm

I'm an other. accidently doesnt account for negligence. In Brenda's case she was *trying* to be careful. If they were accidently breaking stuff cause they didn't care...a bit different. As others have said, stuff happens by accident and sometimes it happens by lighting a fuse....
I'm not scared of the dark, it's the things IN the dark that make me nervous. :)
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Re: Theoretical poll

Postby tncaver » Dec 6, 2011 7:22 pm

A well known caver friend of mine recently broke an extremely rare formation (for TN) while exploring a new section of a previously known cave.
Although the formation was beautiful and rare, it was also somewhat difficult to negotiate past it. I don't hold it against him. The formation is
still there only it is slightly displaced. Names with held to protect the guilty (but not intentionally guilty). This fellow has NSS awards and is a
very conscientious caver and feels terrible about the incident.

Like Chads93GT said, "shit happens".
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