This DISGUSTS me!!!!!

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Re: This DISGUSTS me!!!!!

Postby David Grimes » Jan 28, 2011 1:25 am

I agree it has turned into a big argument over caving ethics while the original subject has faded out of focus. :cavechat:

EDIT: Just to point out for the sake of argument, buying speleothems from this guy or anyone else could be punishable by law in many states. South Carolina does not seem to have a law concerning the sale of speleothems, but allot of states do with varying requirements. In Ohio for example it is only illegal to buy or sale if they were removed from a cave in that state, but for instance in Kentucky the purchase or sale of any speleothem is forbidden by law and in North Carolina it is a class 3 misdemeanor. Other states like Georgia require you to have written consent from the owner of the cave where the formation was removed in order to sell speleothems (which I doubt 99% of speleothem dealers have). Many people just believe they are safe from legal trouble by claiming the formation is from another country but this is not always the case.
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Re: This DISGUSTS me!!!!!

Postby batrotter » Jan 28, 2011 6:57 am

This thread is wearing me out.
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Re: This DISGUSTS me!!!!!

Postby MUD » Jan 28, 2011 11:16 am

Chads93GT wrote::rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

This thread makes me laugh.

batrotter wrote:This thread is wearing me out.

This thread makes me laugh and is wearing me out! :big grin:
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Re: This DISGUSTS me!!!!!

Postby Teresa » Jan 28, 2011 11:25 am

I guess the bottom line on all this is: I've been around rock shows for 40 years, in a state full of caves. I guess I've only seen two "speleothem only dealers" in all that time: one a local fellow by the side of the road with a table who probably didn't know any better, and the other a New Age-y type promoting the alleged mystical properties of the stones. At an average rock show of 30-40 tables, there may be one or two dealers with one or two small stal, usually not calcite, most often labeled from Africa, and never at the sorts of prices advertised on the Net. Actually, rock prices of all kinds are inflated on the Internet, because generally, they are selling to the public who are clueless, not to hobbyists, with a notion of a decent price for a specimen.

It's not a laughing matter, but neither is it one of life or death. It strikes me, though, if cavers took the discussion down a level of intensity, and that if half this energy went into educating the potential buyers or collectors, and was not directed against the sellers we would do a whole lot more good.
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Re: This DISGUSTS me!!!!!

Postby sundame » Nov 20, 2012 3:01 am

wyandottecaver wrote:I see your point. Though much of that is likely farmed and even if wild caught, it's usually better for a dangerous animal to be a threat AND valuable...rather than just a threat. Besides, to be facetious I could say that all those acres of corn we are so proud of in America used to support a lot of neat things we've already killed off :)

Ok so I know this is off topic but I sort of want to challenge your view point of the valuable animal. In the sense that this is talking about these animals are being valued alive but instead there populations are decimated because they are much much more valuable dead than ever alive and this causes ecological imbalance. So really off topic but this comment, that probably wasn't meant the way I am taking it. Sorry my ecological conservationist side is coming out.

But onto this site while I do not at all like what is happening I understand why it is happening and why the local communities would support the destruction of their own caves. When you don't have the basic needs for life you will do whatever is necessary to fulfill them even if you know it is wrong and that you should never ever do that.
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