EPA awards Bigfork High School's cave club an award

Cave conservation issues, techniques, questions. Also visit the NSS Cave Conservation and Management Section.

Moderator: Moderators

EPA awards Bigfork High School's cave club an award

Postby Ernie Coffman » May 25, 2010 12:57 pm

A nice gesture by the EPA on awarding Bigfork High School's cave club for their enviornmental work. :clap: http://www.dailyinterlake.com/news/loca ... 03286.html
Ernie Coffman
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 1145
Joined: Sep 10, 2005 12:07 am
Location: Grants Pass, Oregon
  

Re: EPA awards Bigfork High School's cave club an award

Postby Cheryl Jones » May 25, 2010 8:53 pm

:kewl: :patriotic: :woohoo: :clap: Fantastic!

And the science teacher who started the club, Hans G Bodenhame, is an NSS member! :kewl: :clap:

The NSS would be honored to have the club as a grotto! And each of the club's members as NSS members. :bow:

Cheryl
User avatar
Cheryl Jones
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 2468
Joined: Sep 2, 2005 11:53 pm
Location: Virginia
Name: Cheryl Jones
NSS #: 14479 FE OS
Primary Grotto Affiliation: BATS
  

Re: EPA awards Bigfork High School's cave club an award

Postby ek » Jun 9, 2010 6:47 am

Cheryl Jones wrote:The NSS would be honored to have the club as a grotto! And each of the club's members as NSS members.

Perhaps lifting the age discrimination rule that prevents most high school students from being voting NSS members would usher in that eventuality.

We talk about attracting the next generation of cavers. Doing so is a challenge for every generation. Giving all members of the Society voting rights is one way to send the message that we actually take them seriously. (Remember when there was talk of the BoG trying to take voting rights away from Basic members, and all that fuss? Many Basic members planned to leave the NSS. We might not get good turnout on our ballots, but being able to vote makes all the difference in the world.)

Could a high school club most of whose officers are ineligible to be voting NSS members even be an NSS grotto? If the answer is yes, then we have to ask ourselves why we're denying voting power in our organization to people who we'd encourage to start and run a chapter of it.
Eliah Kagan
NSS 57892
Syracuse University Outing Club

Fund vital White Nose Syndrome research--donate to the NSS and select the WNS Rapid Response Fund.
Facebook users can also donate here.
User avatar
ek
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 1040
Joined: Apr 3, 2007 2:45 am
Location: Syracuse, NY
Name: Eliah Kagan
NSS #: 57892
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Syracuse University Outing Club
  

Re: EPA awards Bigfork High School's cave club an award

Postby John Lovaas » Jun 9, 2010 9:57 am

ek-

As to the voting age split in the membership categories- short answer is that the NSS bylaws are set up that way. And bylaws can be changed. Write to the BOG.

Perhaps the voting/age issue has to do with the NSS being incorporated. We are electing directors of a society- but we are also electing directors of a corporation.

I suspect someone else can clarify this. I think this has been brought up here before- but I can't find the thread.
imbecile sheepherder.
User avatar
John Lovaas
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 590
Joined: Sep 6, 2005 9:10 am
Location: Woodstock, Illinois
  

Re: EPA awards Bigfork High School's cave club an award

Postby ek » Jun 9, 2010 6:02 pm

I doubt there is any law anywhere that prohibits people under 17 from electing directors of a corporation.

Furthermore, my understanding is that people of any age can possess voting stock of a for-profit corporation and vote it as they choose. I see no legal reason why minors could not elect directors of a non-profit corporation. But I am not a lawyer.

Thanks much for the remarks--hopefully you're right and someone can clarify the history behind the policy. Figuring that out would be a good first step.
Eliah Kagan
NSS 57892
Syracuse University Outing Club

Fund vital White Nose Syndrome research--donate to the NSS and select the WNS Rapid Response Fund.
Facebook users can also donate here.
User avatar
ek
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 1040
Joined: Apr 3, 2007 2:45 am
Location: Syracuse, NY
Name: Eliah Kagan
NSS #: 57892
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Syracuse University Outing Club
  

Re: EPA awards Bigfork High School's cave club an award

Postby John Lovaas » Jun 9, 2010 7:12 pm

I bet this has something to do with what the Age of Majority was in the District of Columbia when the NSS was incorporated.

What little reading I've done seems to indicate that only a person who has reached the age of consent can exercise their shareholder voting rights; stock ownership is, in part, a contract, and minors generally cannot enter into business contracts. So if the age of majority is 18, then a 17 year old could not, legally, vote for a corporate board.

We aren't shareholders, but the age of majority may play into the 17yo division of voting rights.

This all varies from state to state.

My brother is meeting with our corporation counsel today, and was going to run the question by him.
imbecile sheepherder.
User avatar
John Lovaas
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 590
Joined: Sep 6, 2005 9:10 am
Location: Woodstock, Illinois
  

Re: EPA awards Bigfork High School's cave club an award

Postby ek » Jun 9, 2010 7:31 pm

I suspect the age of majority in the District of Columbia when the NSS was founded was 21. But anyway...

The reason I brought up 17 is that 17 is the age at which NSS members are permitted to vote in BoG elections. Not 18. 17. That pretty much rebuts any claim that minors cannot legally vote in BoG elections. For all I know, there may be some statutory restriction...but it's not an age of majority restriction. I believe that 17 year olds have always been minors everywhere in the United States, for the whole history of the United States.

Furthermore, I recall that some interesting friends of my family gave me two shares of stock in an energy company for my Bar Mitzvah. That was when I was 13 years and one day old. When the company merged with another company, which was just a few years later, I voted on the question of the merger.

Please let me know what your brother says about the issue. And thanks again for your continuing assistance!
Eliah Kagan
NSS 57892
Syracuse University Outing Club

Fund vital White Nose Syndrome research--donate to the NSS and select the WNS Rapid Response Fund.
Facebook users can also donate here.
User avatar
ek
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 1040
Joined: Apr 3, 2007 2:45 am
Location: Syracuse, NY
Name: Eliah Kagan
NSS #: 57892
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Syracuse University Outing Club
  

Re: EPA awards Bigfork High School's cave club an award

Postby John Lovaas » Jun 9, 2010 9:51 pm

ek wrote:I suspect the age of majority in the District of Columbia when the NSS was founded was 21. But anyway...


I found one online law reference that indicated that in the U.S., some states have had the age of majority as low as 16.

ek wrote:The reason I brought up 17 is that 17 is the age at which NSS members are permitted to vote in BoG elections. Not 18. 17. That pretty much rebuts any claim that minors cannot legally vote in BoG elections.


And that's why I brought up 17- it may have been the age of majority at the time, and the bylaws were set to reflect the law at the time. Hell, when the NSS was incorporated, national voting rights for women had only been in place for 21 years. So the 17 y.o. cutoff may be an artifact of a very different time.

ek wrote:Furthermore, I recall that some interesting friends of my family gave me two shares of stock in an energy company for my Bar Mitzvah. That was when I was 13 years and one day old. When the company merged with another company, which was just a few years later, I voted on the question of the merger.


Well, they could have bought you a car, too, and you could have driven it around the neighborhood. But it wouldn't make it legal. I don't think the SEC will investigate, though ;-)

Please let me know what your brother says about the issue. And thanks again for your continuing assistance![/quote]
imbecile sheepherder.
User avatar
John Lovaas
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 590
Joined: Sep 6, 2005 9:10 am
Location: Woodstock, Illinois
  

Re: EPA awards Bigfork High School's cave club an award

Postby Teresa » Jun 11, 2010 9:24 pm

The age of majority for "what" is the question. There are several states where women can get married at 14 with parental consent. Now, the parental consent is required, being as the girl is still a minor. But if marriage isn't a legal contract I don't know what is.
Teresa
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 1413
Joined: Dec 31, 2005 9:06 pm
  

Re: EPA awards Bigfork High School's cave club an award

Postby amaddox » Jul 2, 2010 11:43 am

ek wrote:
Cheryl Jones wrote:The NSS would be honored to have the club as a grotto! And each of the club's members as NSS members.

Perhaps lifting the age discrimination rule that prevents most high school students from being voting NSS members would usher in that eventuality.

We talk about attracting the next generation of cavers. Doing so is a challenge for every generation. Giving all members of the Society voting rights is one way to send the message that we actually take them seriously. (Remember when there was talk of the BoG trying to take voting rights away from Basic members, and all that fuss? Many Basic members planned to leave the NSS. We might not get good turnout on our ballots, but being able to vote makes all the difference in the world.)

Could a high school club most of whose officers are ineligible to be voting NSS members even be an NSS grotto? If the answer is yes, then we have to ask ourselves why we're denying voting power in our organization to people who we'd encourage to start and run a chapter of it.

One of the other issues is that a student grotto has to have an affiliation with a college or university, something along those lines. High schools apparently don't count. I would like to see this changed. But for now I'm an Advisor for what I call an Independent Student Grotto.
Allen Maddox
NSS Youth Group Liaison Committee, Chair

http://www.youcave.org/
User avatar
amaddox
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 221
Joined: Sep 9, 2005 10:42 am
Location: Pennsylvania
NSS #: 55464
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Philadelphia Grotto
  

EPA awards Bigfork High School's cave club an award

Postby Ernie Coffman » Jul 2, 2010 11:49 am

Maybe this is something that should be brought up at the COG meeting this August, at the NSS Convention. If others feel in favor of this position, then move on toward presenting it at the BOG meeting(s).
Ernie Coffman
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 1145
Joined: Sep 10, 2005 12:07 am
Location: Grants Pass, Oregon
  

Re: EPA awards Bigfork High School's cave club an award

Postby John Lovaas » Jul 2, 2010 12:23 pm

Well, if they want to be a student grotto, there's no reason they can't be- at least as far as the NSS website reads. That, a caveat.

A few bits of bylaws and such:

"...A chapter (Grotto, Student Grotto) is an internal organization made up of individuals who reside in the same general locality or who cave together and maintain community by means of electronic or other communications..."

and

"...Membership in grottos or chapters shall consist of at least five members of the Society. Membership in regions shall consist of at least two active Internal Organizations. Membership in sections shall consist of at least ten members of the Society. To maintain active status a grotto must include at least five active NSS members with primary affiliation with that grotto..."

Nowhere does it say what age the members need to be, or what kind of membership category these newly formed grotto members need to pay for. But I may be missing something.

So- if they want to join the NSS, and form a school club, it seems that they can. Just can't vote for a couple years. I'd suggest that it takes any informed voter a couple of years to know how to vote on any issue, anyway. As a new NSS member, I used to vote for NSS directors just based on what was written under their picture on the ballot!

In the meantime, they are doing an excellent job in achieving the aim of "the study and science of speleology, the protection of caves and their natural contents, and (the promotion of) fellowship among those interested therein..."
imbecile sheepherder.
User avatar
John Lovaas
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 590
Joined: Sep 6, 2005 9:10 am
Location: Woodstock, Illinois
  


Return to Conservation Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users