Logging in Thacher Park!(debunked)

Cave conservation issues, techniques, questions. Also visit the NSS Cave Conservation and Management Section.

Moderator: Moderators

Logging in Thacher Park!(debunked)

Postby Sleep518 » May 5, 2010 9:06 am

Hey all. I'm sure everyone from the North East has heard about the closing of Thacher Park in NY. For some that might not know Thacher Park is a large mostly limestone escarpment with "100' " cliffs in some places and is riddled with karst features(over 50 caves on the property, "Hailes"one of the largest bat hibernaculum in the NE) and is a significant archeological site for its fossil bearing rock. As of yesterday The Indian Ladder Trail is the only part of the park that has been closed. A friend and I took a ride over and entered the long path on Beaver Dam Road. After visiting a few spots in the Sate Forest section we decided to walk the cliffs above Indian Ladder. We stopped at the corner before the historical marker for Tory's Hole to have a look down when we realized there was a large swath of trees(landing area) cut below Hailes Cave lot. There is also what seems to be a newly cut logging road running along the escarpment at the base of the cliffs and intersecting with another trail cut following the creek bed that flows from Hailes. It seems like there is a logging operation starting up already and everyone I talk to tells me they have heard rumors of planned mining operations. My friend visited the Park over the weekend and reported that there were more than 100 people on the Indian Ladder Trail. He said there were hordes of people just hopping the fence and squeezing through the bars and he was unsure until he eventually followed a 70 year old couple and their grand children in after being reassured. It seems the state will pay far more to police this site then to keep it open. Not that the State has always made the best decisions, but It seems like this is a bad deal for everyone unless the state thinks there's money to be made off the property(Then it just sucks for us). Has anyone heard about any logging operations or any confirmed future mining projects ?
Last edited by Sleep518 on May 7, 2010 6:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Sleep518
Infrequent Poster
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Apr 24, 2010 9:39 pm
Location: Greene county
Name: Casey Bavosa
Primary Grotto Affiliation: helderberg hudson grotto
  

Re: Logging in Thatcher Park!

Postby NZcaver » May 5, 2010 10:53 am

Welcome to the forum.

If you haven't already, you might try contacting the Northeastern Cave Conservancy with your questions/concerns. The email address is ncc [at] necaveconservancy [dot] org
User avatar
NZcaver
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 6316
Joined: Sep 7, 2005 2:05 am
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Name: Jansen
NSS #: 50665RL
Primary Grotto Affiliation: CCG
  

Re: Logging in Thatcher Park!

Postby PYoungbaer » May 5, 2010 2:29 pm

We've made some additional inquiries today, but Thacher (no "t" in the middle) has been on the state budget chopping block, along with a host of other state parks. Friends of Thacher Park and many others, including the NCC, have weighed in in protest. In the meantime, the bathrooms have apparently been closed, and the Indian Ladder Trail may just be seasonally still closed from the winter. The area below the escarpment, depending on how far out, is likely privately owned. The cliffs, by the way are 100 feet, not 300. More info when we get it.

Peter Youngbaer
Vice President
Northeastern Cave Conservancy
PYoungbaer
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 1358
Joined: Apr 30, 2008 4:04 pm
Location: Plainfield, VT
NSS #: 16161 CM FE
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Vermont Cavers Association
  

Re: Logging in Thacher Park!

Postby Sleep518 » May 5, 2010 5:34 pm

It would be nice if a group like the Nature Conservancy or similar could take over management of the park seeing they already have the land connecting it to the west. I know its probably not possible (for many obvious reasons) But it seems like a good fit to me.

Corrections noted
Sleep518
Infrequent Poster
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Apr 24, 2010 9:39 pm
Location: Greene county
Name: Casey Bavosa
Primary Grotto Affiliation: helderberg hudson grotto
  

Re: Logging in Thacher Park!

Postby PYoungbaer » May 7, 2010 11:43 am

This from Thom Engel, NSS member and Friend of Thacher Park:

Thoughout much of the park, state land ends at the base of the cliff. (There are few exceptions.) There is an individual logging down below the park. So, logging, yes. In the park, no.

Other news, unless something happens to open the park, the news is that as of June 17, all gates and all areas in the park will be closed. The areas that are open like Hop Field, Lower Paint Mine, and the Overlook will be closed. All existing personnel will be transferred over to Thompson's Lake, which will remain open. Even if monies are made available to open the park, it is unclear how this will work. If the Thacher folks are moved back to Thacher, that does not leave enough to operate Thompsons Lake.
PYoungbaer
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 1358
Joined: Apr 30, 2008 4:04 pm
Location: Plainfield, VT
NSS #: 16161 CM FE
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Vermont Cavers Association
  

Re: Logging in Thacher Park!

Postby wyandottecaver » May 7, 2010 1:01 pm

sounds like a great way to spend our WNS money. We get a " ground zero" WNS hibernacula for cave access and research along with cliffs and karst features and a strong customer base to spread our message to. Beats building cave gates in MO :doh:
I'm not scared of the dark, it's the things IN the dark that make me nervous. :)
User avatar
wyandottecaver
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 2902
Joined: Aug 24, 2007 8:44 pm
Location: Indiana
  

Re: Logging in Thacher Park!

Postby LukeM » May 7, 2010 1:21 pm

So who is going to enforce the trail/gate closures? If no one new is hired to keep up with it this means resources will be diverted, likely from more important things, to patrol the area. That, or violators will be largely ignored as they seem to be currently.
User avatar
LukeM
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 705
Joined: Jan 30, 2008 2:53 pm
Location: Albany, NY
Name: Luke Mazza
NSS #: 59317
Primary Grotto Affiliation: Syracuse University Outing Club
  

Re: Logging in Thacher Park!

Postby Sleep518 » May 7, 2010 6:21 pm

LukeM wrote:So who is going to enforce the trail/gate closures? If no one new is hired to keep up with it this means resources will be diverted, likely from more important things, to patrol the area. That, or violators will be largely ignored as they seem to be currently.


Id think the Albany county sheriffs would end up doing most of the work and remote monitoring would eventually be installed. But if you remember they ended up reopening the Basic Reservoir after it cost to much to patrol and the state realized it would be more effective to let the local fisherman keep the water safe.
Sleep518
Infrequent Poster
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Apr 24, 2010 9:39 pm
Location: Greene county
Name: Casey Bavosa
Primary Grotto Affiliation: helderberg hudson grotto
  

Re: Logging in Thacher Park!(debunked)

Postby Sleep518 » May 29, 2010 4:26 pm

Well that was strange. Thacher Park is open again!

http://ibm-news.tmcnet.com/news/2010/05/29/4816461.htm
Sleep518
Infrequent Poster
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Apr 24, 2010 9:39 pm
Location: Greene county
Name: Casey Bavosa
Primary Grotto Affiliation: helderberg hudson grotto
  


Return to Conservation Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users