Word to describe small "caves"

Cave geology, biology, and similar topics. Also visit the NSS Biology Section, or the Cave Geology and Geography Section, or the NSS Paleontology Section.

Moderator: Moderators

Re: Word to describe small "caves"

Postby Spike » Oct 8, 2009 5:23 pm

Macropore comes to mind, doen't have the entrance part your looking for. "Small cave like features" gets the idea across but s unwielding and informal. If your trying for a one small size fits all term for these features any where then good luck, we can't even agree what exactly a cave is. If you're workng with a specific NPS park then I would just take the time and describe the features objectivly. If they are 1 meter diameter solution cavities then say that. If the features are .5 meter diameter voids in soil from soil piping then go with that. Good luck. Anyway let us know what you decide on.
Spike
User avatar
Spike
Prolific Poster
 
Posts: 134
Joined: Dec 23, 2005 3:25 pm
Location: Central MO
  

Re: Word to describe small "caves"

Postby Teresa » Oct 8, 2009 9:51 pm

Every small hole in the wall less than 20 ft I've ever mapped and turned in was called a "karst feature". At one time (pre-Spike *|;-)) the Missouri Speleological Survey was doing the calling. At one point, there was a paper file of these things and it was labeled "karst features".

I know, technically a sinkhole or a natural tunnel or a spring is a karst feature also; this use of karst feature seemed specific to the survey field.

Cavelet? I vote for cavelet. :grin:
Teresa
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 1413
Joined: Dec 31, 2005 9:06 pm
  

Re: Word to describe small "caves"

Postby Squirrel Girl » Oct 9, 2009 5:59 am

Spike wrote:Macropore comes to mind, doen't have the entrance part your looking for. "Small cave like features" gets the idea across but s unwielding and informal. If your trying for a one small size fits all term for these features any where then good luck, we can't even agree what exactly a cave is. If you're workng with a specific NPS park then I would just take the time and describe the features objectivly. If they are 1 meter diameter solution cavities then say that. If the features are .5 meter diameter voids in soil from soil piping then go with that. Good luck. Anyway let us know what you decide on.
Spike

I like it--SCaLF.

Joints and overhangs aren't karst, so any reference to karst doesn't work for me.
Barbara Anne am Ende

"Weird people are my people."
User avatar
Squirrel Girl
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 3182
Joined: Sep 5, 2005 5:34 am
Location: Albuquerque, NM
NSS #: 15789
  

Re: Word to describe small "caves"

Postby tncaver » Oct 9, 2009 8:54 am

How about grotto, vug or alcove.
tncaver
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 2635
Joined: May 17, 2007 7:03 pm
  

Re: Word to describe small "caves"

Postby Squirrel Girl » Oct 9, 2009 9:08 am

tncaver wrote:How about grotto, vug or alcove.

Grotto has too much of a karst implication to me. I had been using "vug" but my boss (and other remote sensing types) think it's an acronym that needs defining. And is secondary porosity. Alcove is a word I use a lot. But verbally people don't understand what I'm saying. I'd be happy to include vugs and alcoves in my personal acronym of SCaLFs, though SCaLF may encompass all pretty simply.
Barbara Anne am Ende

"Weird people are my people."
User avatar
Squirrel Girl
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 3182
Joined: Sep 5, 2005 5:34 am
Location: Albuquerque, NM
NSS #: 15789
  

Re: Word to describe small "caves"

Postby tncaver » Oct 9, 2009 9:40 am

SCALF isn't a word in my 1960 version of Webster's dictionary. But neither is CAVER. :kewl:
tncaver
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 2635
Joined: May 17, 2007 7:03 pm
  

Re: Word to describe small "caves"

Postby Squirrel Girl » Oct 10, 2009 5:48 am

tncaver wrote:SCALF isn't a word in my 1960 version of Webster's dictionary. But neither is CAVER. :kewl:

SCaLF in a newly described acronym. Caver is a word, in the dictionary or not!
Barbara Anne am Ende

"Weird people are my people."
User avatar
Squirrel Girl
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 3182
Joined: Sep 5, 2005 5:34 am
Location: Albuquerque, NM
NSS #: 15789
  

Re: Word to describe small "caves"

Postby Jagdmann » Oct 10, 2009 7:16 am

How about SOC/SOCs ( Small Open Cavities ), this would be assuming that anyone using this particular acronym in context would be familiar:tonguecheek:with what the definition is.
User avatar
Jagdmann
Occasional Poster
 
Posts: 44
Joined: Feb 13, 2008 2:34 am
Location: Under Kentucky
Name: Jean Jagdmann
NSS #: 59538
Primary Grotto Affiliation: BGG
  

Re: Word to describe small "caves"

Postby tncaver » Oct 10, 2009 7:31 am

Squirrel Girl wrote:
tncaver wrote:SCALF isn't a word in my 1960 version of Webster's dictionary. But neither is CAVER. :kewl:

SCaLF in a newly described acronym. Caver is a word, in the dictionary or not!


I agree. CAVER is a word. That was my point. :agree: If enough people use SCaLF, it will eventually become a word too. :clap:
tncaver
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 2635
Joined: May 17, 2007 7:03 pm
  

Re: Word to describe small "caves"

Postby wyandottecaver » Oct 10, 2009 11:55 am

I actually like the SOC's idea.....
I'm not scared of the dark, it's the things IN the dark that make me nervous. :)
User avatar
wyandottecaver
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 2902
Joined: Aug 24, 2007 8:44 pm
Location: Indiana
  

Re: Word to describe small "caves"

Postby Cheryl Jones » Oct 10, 2009 7:49 pm

:yeah that: :wtg:
User avatar
Cheryl Jones
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 2469
Joined: Sep 2, 2005 11:53 pm
Location: Virginia
Name: Cheryl Jones
NSS #: 14479 FE OS
Primary Grotto Affiliation: BATS
  

Re: Word to describe small "caves"

Postby Teresa » Oct 10, 2009 9:29 pm

Squirrel Girl wrote:
Joints and overhangs aren't karst, so any reference to karst doesn't work for me.


But both joints and overhangs (aka "rock shelters" in the original post) "may" be karst, though they aren't necessarily so.
if one said karsted joint or karst overhang, those could be correct.
Teresa
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 1413
Joined: Dec 31, 2005 9:06 pm
  

Re: Word to describe small "caves"

Postby Teresa » Oct 10, 2009 9:38 pm

"Vug" is already defined in the AGI Glossary-- "a small cavity in a vein or rock, usually lined with crystals of a different mineral composition from the enclosing rock." Vugs are geodes, ore-lined cavities in host rock mines, or even a crystal pocket in a hand-sized rock specimen.

Vug not good, because dissolution features can be entirely naked of crystal linings.

However, two entries below is: "vuggy porosity. " "Pores in sedimentary rocks that result from dissolution of the rock. Vuggy porosity ranges in size from pin point to cavernous."

I'm not sure that even the lumpers amongst us would put a granite joint, an ore-lined vug, a solutioned volcanic breccia, holey, mud-sucking-vermin-track ridden limestone and glaciated potholes into the same bag just because they all are vacant space.

On the other hand, we could call it all "airspace." Or how about: "geospace"? :clap:
Teresa
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 1413
Joined: Dec 31, 2005 9:06 pm
  

Re: Word to describe small "caves"

Postby Wayne Harrison » Oct 11, 2009 9:38 am

Cavelet.
User avatar
Wayne Harrison
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 2382
Joined: Aug 30, 2005 5:29 pm
Location: Pine, Colorado
NSS #: 18689 FE
Primary Grotto Affiliation: unaffiliated
  

Re: Word to describe small "caves"

Postby Jagdmann » Oct 11, 2009 12:20 pm

Wayne Harrison wrote:Cavelet.


SOC :boxing: :rofl:
User avatar
Jagdmann
Occasional Poster
 
Posts: 44
Joined: Feb 13, 2008 2:34 am
Location: Under Kentucky
Name: Jean Jagdmann
NSS #: 59538
Primary Grotto Affiliation: BGG
  

PreviousNext

Return to Speleology Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users