Expert's opinion needed to identify animal

[zenas]

As the result of a recent cave-exploration, two members of the Hellenic Speleological Society
found human and animal's bones. Can anyone identify the animal from the attached photo ?



Please reply this post or email me at admin@zenas.gr

[bigalpha]

it looks scary -- but i dont know, sorry. a scale bar would be helpful, though.

[zenas]

it looks scary -- but i dont know, sorry. a scale bar would be helpful, though.

SIZE: 13 x 8 cm.
LOCATION: OLYMPUS MOUNTAIN, GREECE
PLACE: AT THE BOTTOM OF A CAVE

[cob]

zenas, I would have to say (from the tooth growth) it is some kind of rodent. Obvious I know... but sometimes the obvious is missed.

tom

[zenas]

I agree with you, it looks like a big rat.

[zenas]

... or maybe a beaver ?

[zenas]

or maybe a rabbit skull ?

[tropicalbats]

Zenas,

First things first. Take a look at that sketch you posted of the rabbit skull. There is a "peg tooth' noted. This is a second upper incisor located directly behind those big obvious front teeth.

Now go back to your original full-sized photo and see if it is clear whether this tooth is either present, or there is a hole there where it was. From the posted photo, I think this skull had this tooth, but can't be sure.

If the tooth is present, it is not a rodent but a lagomorph, ie, rabbit, hare or pika. If the tooth is absent, then you have a rodent.

That will get you to the "Order" at least.

And just to answer the unasked question about those funky teeth. Rodents and Lagomorphs have continually growing teeth. If they don't chew on rough stuff like grass, acorns or whatnot, their teeth will continue to grow but not be "filed back" so to speak by the food they are eating. Looks like this guy was eating a soft diet for some reason, and the teeth just kept growing. Could be part of why the creature died.

Cheers,

Keith Christenson

[zenas]

Some more opinions i have receive so far:

From: Suren Gazaryan (Russia):
It is Lagomorpha, Leporidae - Oryctolagus or Lepus. Most probably, animal fall down to cave and die without proper food. Dr. S. Gazaryan, Institute of ecology of Mountain Territories, Kabardino-Balkarian Centre of RAS Nalchik.

From: TexasCaves ML:
What about Nutria? I recently found the lower left jaw with tooth and compared to a complete beaver skull - it was definitely not beaver, and we concluded nutria given the area in which it was found.

From Chris (Mendip Hills, UK):
I'm no expert but wild boar/pig seems a possibility?

From UK:
Hamster? Its hard to see scale, ruler or foot should have been placed in picture.

From Sheffield, UK:
The teeth look quite rodent like so that would be my guess.

From Greece:
90% must be a snake

[bigalpha]

that sketch just doesnt seem to match up with the picture very well, IMO.

[zenas]

Another opinion from Texas, USA:

From Vivian Loftin: Creature (Jean Krejca, PhD) says if it were in Texas she'd say porcupine, but not being familiar with Grecian mammals she can't say for sure. It's a bit like a muskrat too.

[peter febb]

Brown hare (Lepus europeus) would be a good bet...I agree with Dr Gazaryan.
--pf

[zenas]

Some opinions i have receive so far:

[zenas]

More answers:

From Julie Jenkins:
Try looking at the University of Texas site: http://www.digimorph.org/specimens/Cynomys_ludovicianus Digital Morphology - A unique biological visualization library @ DigiMorph.Org. Digital Morphology, part of the National Science Foundation Digital Libraries Initiative, develops and serves unique 2D and 3D visualizations of the internal and external structure of living and extinct vertebrates, and a growing number of 'invertebrates'. The Digital Morphology library contains nearly a terabyte of imagery of natural history specimens that are important to education and central to ongoing cutting-edge research efforts. Sort of looks like the Cynomys ludovicianus, Black-tailed Prairie Dog.

From Kevin Bright:
Can't tell for sure not knowing the size but strongly resembles a beaver or muskrat skull. A close up of the molars would help identify it. It is definately a rodent of some sort. Kevin

[zenas]

Location: Olympus Mountain, Greece
Place: At the bottom of a cave
Size: 13 X 8 cm
Environment: Two pictures from the cave they found it