I'm a script writer in search of some info

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Postby Plot Device » Nov 22, 2005 9:26 pm

Plethodon wrote:have to be in United States? Look other places. Maybe bahamas or carribian islands or europe. Have lots of carbonate rock there. No rocks not need be folded to have lots of passage. bigges t cav in world in flat lay strata in Kentucky. Not near ocean, though. Maybe look up caves in Caucouses (country of Georgia). US coasts not good for big caves.


Yes, it MUST be USA. :cry: And I really wanted the East Coast because I wound up weaving in a bizarre element to the plot where there is a chase scene and (bear in mind--this is a fantasy story) the chase progresses all the way across the Atlantic Ocean to Northern Europe. So Maine really fits well with that one plot twist of the chase scene. But all of these posts from you guys are just so educational.
In the field of fantasy literature, there is one story element which is cited by most scholars as being downright necessary to a worthwhile adventure plot: the main protagonist MUST journey into an underground lair of some kind.
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Postby Plot Device » Nov 22, 2005 9:27 pm

itabot wrote:How about Hawaii. 8)


Unfortunately, that defintiely doesn't work for my story. Thanks anyhow. 8)
In the field of fantasy literature, there is one story element which is cited by most scholars as being downright necessary to a worthwhile adventure plot: the main protagonist MUST journey into an underground lair of some kind.
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Re: I'm a script writer in search of some info

Postby Plot Device » Nov 22, 2005 9:29 pm

Dwight wrote:
Plot Device wrote:Hi! 8)

2) The story takes place in a cliff-top house beside the ocean, and lower down the cliff face, not far from the house, there is supposed to be a SMALL cave just above the tidal mark. (Small as in the size of a two-car garage.)



I think your small cave is no problem for the Maine coast. Here's from the Boston Grotto website . . .

Sandstone sea caves and erosional sea caves are found in several places along the Maine coast. The sandstone sea caves are in the downeast region just north of Eastport near Robinson. While the erosional sea caves are found in the granite that makes up much of the Maine coast line. These caves include such caves as Day Mountain Cave, Blowing Cave* and Gulliver's Hole*. The caving sea kayaker has a number places to find small sea caves on the many islands and in the rocky coves along the Maine coast.

. . . but the larger system you describe is a stretch for granite. Visit http://www.bostongrotto.org/Grotto/hend ... e.html#dow and see if you like what's there. An accurate description of the real caves in the area might support the fiction you want.

Dwight


Wow! You're giving me some hope that maybe I can salvage my current script afterall! :grin: I'll be digging into your info shortly. 8)
In the field of fantasy literature, there is one story element which is cited by most scholars as being downright necessary to a worthwhile adventure plot: the main protagonist MUST journey into an underground lair of some kind.
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Postby Squirrel Girl » Nov 22, 2005 9:30 pm

I don't get it. If you're making up fiction, why not make up a cave that doesn't exist in Maine? Of all the implausible things I've read, that's not as bad as most of 'em.
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Postby Plot Device » Nov 22, 2005 9:33 pm

bigalpha wrote:Florida actually has elaborate cave systems. Of course, they are almost all undewater. There are large amounts of carbonate rocks (good for caves) in florida. I think, for your purposes, you could use Florida if you wanted. It's very possible to get a sizable cavern, and winding passageways.


These examples you guys are giving about the different types of rock (sandstone and carbonate, etc) is all very helpful to me. It gives me a solid handle on what to plug into Google and how to scan the data.

And Florida might work well for my story because I really really really wanna keep it on the East Coast.
In the field of fantasy literature, there is one story element which is cited by most scholars as being downright necessary to a worthwhile adventure plot: the main protagonist MUST journey into an underground lair of some kind.
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Postby Plot Device » Nov 22, 2005 9:39 pm

Squirrel Girl wrote:I don't get it. If you're making up fiction, why not make up a cave that doesn't exist in Maine? Of all the implausible things I've read, that's not as bad as most of 'em.


Oh--I am defintiely going to make up a non-existent cave, :) but I want to invent this made up cave in a REAL place where such caves are capable of existing.

I mean, look at it this way:

On the one hand it would be perfectly okay for me to make up some story where a cluster of coconut trees in some old lady's back yard play an important role to the story's outcome. But on the other hand, I would have no business having such a story take place in Central Idaho where coconut trees are incapable of growing. :shock:

Same with my imaginary cave--I should at least try to set my cave in a geographic region where coastal caves really do exist. 8)
In the field of fantasy literature, there is one story element which is cited by most scholars as being downright necessary to a worthwhile adventure plot: the main protagonist MUST journey into an underground lair of some kind.
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Postby Plot Device » Nov 22, 2005 9:41 pm

kvart wrote:TAG!


That be Tennessee-Alabama-Georgia for you newbies!

:kaver:


I'm defintiely a newbie! :P
In the field of fantasy literature, there is one story element which is cited by most scholars as being downright necessary to a worthwhile adventure plot: the main protagonist MUST journey into an underground lair of some kind.
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Postby Plot Device » Nov 22, 2005 9:43 pm

Sean Ryan wrote:Doe sit have to be on the ocean? If you could move the setting to a lake or a river, that opens up all the folded-strata glory of the landlocked states.


I'd prefer it be on the ocean for the sake of a minor plot point AND for the sense of dread I want to instill. There's a desolate sense of loneliness along a coast line that I want to try and borrow from.
In the field of fantasy literature, there is one story element which is cited by most scholars as being downright necessary to a worthwhile adventure plot: the main protagonist MUST journey into an underground lair of some kind.
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Postby Plot Device » Nov 22, 2005 9:44 pm

Phil Winkler wrote:If you locate the house on the banks/cliffs of the Tennessee River or the Mississippi Revier you have all the large caves you need.

On the ocean I would go to the island of Sardinia and the Blue Grotto/Cave. It fits your description quite well.

Pick up a copy of Shibumi by Travanian. It has a great cave description and the hero even exits the cave via an undergound river and that pours out of the cliff down into a river in the Pyrennees.


You're the third person to say I should relocate inland, so perhaps I should take heed to this suggestion. But I'm hesitant. I need to meditate on that suggestion for quite a long time to determine if it will gut my story.
Last edited by Plot Device on Nov 22, 2005 9:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
In the field of fantasy literature, there is one story element which is cited by most scholars as being downright necessary to a worthwhile adventure plot: the main protagonist MUST journey into an underground lair of some kind.
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Postby Plot Device » Nov 22, 2005 9:46 pm

hewhocaves wrote:Hi PD...

Caves can be found in many types of rock, but primarily in limestone. Some of the other types are lava flows, halite, gypsum, and even sandstone and conglomerate (those caves in those last two types usually aren't long).

You can find a map of the cave bearing rock in the US here:
http://www.caves.org/pub/journal/PDF/V64/v64n1-Veni.pdf
(it'll take a while to load the PDF... the map is near the back)

Now, you have to coordiate that with a part of the country that you want to put the story in.

Since you're already thinking of maine, I'm going to go along the assumption that you're looking for somewhere with vertical relief, remoteness and a temperate forest area.
You could still have it in maine, dig up some kind of conglomerate rock and say there is a fissure system underneath the house. Why people would build on the house is beyond me *shrug*, but it 'works', more or less.

You could also place it in the Alaska panhandle. It's darn cold up there, but it also fits the parameters.

You could place it in Michigan, on the northern limb. That can be remote, with vertical relief and has some karst there. Again, do a little research, find out what the rock is like there and use that as a guide.

Or, lastly, you could place it south of the border, in Mexico or Central America. Or on an island in the carribean - Cuba and Puerto Rico are nice.
Puerto Rico has the benefit of being part of the US. Theres all sorts of interesting things down there with the tropics and all that. You'll need to do your research to get it accurate, but the potential is there for something unique, storywise.

Plus, you can do a field trip to PR and write it off for taxes as 'research' (grin).

John


Woah! :shock: I think I just hit the mother lode with your post, hwc! Thank you!
In the field of fantasy literature, there is one story element which is cited by most scholars as being downright necessary to a worthwhile adventure plot: the main protagonist MUST journey into an underground lair of some kind.
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Postby Plot Device » Nov 22, 2005 9:48 pm

itabot wrote:
hewhocaves wrote:Hi PD...

Caves can be found in many types of rock, but primarily in limestone. Some of the other types are lava flows, halite, gypsum, and even sandstone and conglomerate (those caves in those last two types usually aren't long).



Caves can also be found in dirt/claystone too, but like you said, aren't long.


Funny thing is that I don't need just ONE cave to be long. I can settle for a network of caves loosely connected by breaks and fissures that act as passageways.

Does that sound totally stupid? :oops:
In the field of fantasy literature, there is one story element which is cited by most scholars as being downright necessary to a worthwhile adventure plot: the main protagonist MUST journey into an underground lair of some kind.
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Postby Plot Device » Nov 22, 2005 9:54 pm

cob wrote:Are you writing for cavers? If so you won't make very much money (*not enuf of us) and if you are writing for the general public... THEY WON'T KNOW! or care or that matter. A good story will carry itself. I wouldn't sweat it.


Well, I'm trying to write something that won't trigger too many eye-rolls from those members of the audience who could possibly know a thing or two about indigenous rock strata in the New England area. And I suspect that not just cavers would know: geologists, archeologists, miners, contruction professionals--all of them would know these things.

When you write a glaring error in a story, it distracts the reader from your novel, or else distract the audience member from your film. That one little rolling of the eyes :roll: takes their gaze and their concentration off the page/screen and away from your tale. And when concenetration is broken, so is the ability to suspend disbelief.

A good story covers all its bases. So I want to cover mine. 8)
In the field of fantasy literature, there is one story element which is cited by most scholars as being downright necessary to a worthwhile adventure plot: the main protagonist MUST journey into an underground lair of some kind.
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Well, if you can write in the Great Lakes versus the Ocean..

Postby Nuke » Nov 22, 2005 10:46 pm

Lots of carbonate rocks in the Great Lakes. The Door Peninsula and north shore of Lake Michigan are bounded by Silurian-age Niagara Dolomite, and it continues in an arc through the islands and Bruce Peninsula of Ontario in Lake Huron on its way to Niagara Falls. There are both sea caves and solution caves in this formation, particularly on the peninsulas.

On the Door Peninsula, the west shore is high bluffs and cliffs, and the rock surface dips towards the east. Here's a couple of links to give you a feel for what's here...

http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/geolwisc/geo ... 0Point.HTM

http://jove.geol.niu.edu/faculty/fische ... sonbay.htm
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Postby hewhocaves » Nov 22, 2005 10:53 pm

Plot Device wrote:
cob wrote:Are you writing for cavers? If so you won't make very much money (*not enuf of us) and if you are writing for the general public... THEY WON'T KNOW! or care or that matter. A good story will carry itself. I wouldn't sweat it.


Well, I'm trying to write something that won't trigger too many eye-rolls from those members of the audience who could possibly know a thing or two about indigenous rock strata in the New England area. And I suspect that not just cavers would know: geologists, archeologists, miners, contruction professionals--all of them would know these things.

When you write a glaring error in a story, it distracts the reader from your novel, or else distract the audience member from your film. That one little rolling of the eyes :roll: takes their gaze and their concentration off the page/screen and away from your tale. And when concenetration is broken, so is the ability to suspend disbelief.

A good story covers all its bases. So I want to cover mine. 8)


PD hit the nail square on.

As an author, you need to be an expert in whatever you're writing about because someone who IS an expert is that field is liable to read that book. And its not just coincidence, either. People like to read about things that they are interested in.

I've been told point blank by people reading things I've written that something wouldn't happen that way. And not just major plot stuff. Little things that you consider 'filler', someone else will jump on. Someone once pointed out that the firearm an Air Force captain was using was not 'standard issue' and that it would be VERY unlikely that he would get training in it. He suggested that I either come up with a believable back story for it or change the weapon.
I'm writing a story now - literally a cave man story (cro-magnons and neanderthals). One of the things I'm trying to keep as accurate as possible is the stone age tech that each group was likely to use. (it's actually very integral to the story). So I wind up reading a lot of archaeology journals.

One of the examples I like to use concerns Paul Steward's last book (whcih I edited for historical accuracy). in one story he mentions muslim temples in the middle east. Only problem is that the story takes place around the birth of christ - 700+ years BEFORE Islam was founded! It's a simple mistake. His source said persian. Persian = islam (i know.. that's a mistake as well, I'm not getting into that here). It was one word removed, but somebody would have noticed it.

And there's been some humorous cave fiction out there (unintentional, of course.) Anne McLean Matthews' "The Cave" has a mega-system under a house in New Hampshire. teh cave scenes are actaully pretty good - but there isn't any Ls anywhere near the site! The same goes for a book which takes place in Trenton NJ. apparantly, NJ has a 50+ mile cave!

The point is, if the reader recognizes one major gaffe, he's going to suspect others and look down on your book. And he's probably right.

Getting back to PD's story...

PD, I would recommend, in addition to setting your cave in a good spot to actually visit a cave, preferrably in the company of cavers. What i mean is take a wild tour (and cavers are the cheapest way of doing it). If at all possible, take two or three. Writing good cave literature takes work, and is kind of specialized. If you can pull it off (and I can't see why you wouldn't) you can give your audience a great ride. If you live near WV, let me know and I'll be glad to take you somewhere.

Also, do a search on shalon's name on this board. he came with similar questions. check out my thought son writing for the underground there as well.

Go to your library and read (at least) The Longest Cave, by Brucker and Watson. Read other cave books if they have them, but that's pretty much required. They do an excellent job of making you feel like you're in there.

That should keep you busy through the thanksgiving weekend. ;)

john
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Postby bigalpha » Nov 23, 2005 9:28 am

If you truly wanted to stay in the East Coast for your plot, Florida may be a good bet for you. There is a significant amount of karst in Florida, however, it is common to have these caves filled with water. I'm sure that many caves are not. Check out these links:

USF
FSS
PDF of cave map, to see what a "typical" cave is like *public info*
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