2011 Sera Cave Carnival

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2011 Sera Cave Carnival

Postby cavefox » Jan 7, 2011 7:42 pm

Anyone heard anything about the location of the 2011 Cave Carnival?
I'm so wanting to know!!
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Re: 2011 Sera Cave Carnival

Postby Batgirl » Jan 9, 2011 4:30 pm

As far as I know, there will be no Carnival this year. The host grotto has declined and there is no one else that has stepped up. :shrug:

This really sucks because this will be the 60th anniversary.
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Re: 2011 Sera Cave Carnival

Postby cavefox » Jan 10, 2011 3:28 pm

That sucks!!!!
Has WNS been a factor in all of it?.. just wondering.
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Re: 2011 Sera Cave Carnival

Postby Marduke » Jan 10, 2011 3:37 pm

I heard that Nashville was looking into a bare bones impromptu Sera this year. No guide books and such, just a bunch of cavers camping in the woods.

But they were still just looking into it last I heard.
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Re: 2011 Sera Cave Carnival

Postby Batgirl » Jan 10, 2011 4:56 pm

I seriously doubt that WNS was a factor in the grotto's decision. I think they were just too small of an organization and didn't think they could pull it off. They should have said something a year ago, when there was time to find a replacement. :doh:
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Re: 2011 Sera Cave Carnival

Postby cavergirl » Jan 11, 2011 8:22 pm

Batgirl wrote:As far as I know, there will be no Carnival this year. The host grotto has declined and there is no one else that has stepped up. :shrug:

Not true on both counts. the "host grotto" did not decline cause there was no host grotto. No grotto stepped up to the plate to host.
There WILL be a SERA Carnival but it will probably be a small impromptu affair. the SERA executive committee is trying to put something together. NOT the Nashville grotto, heck we just did it 2 years ago. but some of our members are execs in SERA.
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Re: 2011 Sera Cave Carnival

Postby Batgirl » Jan 11, 2011 9:07 pm

I could be wrong but my understanding is that the Smokey Mountain Grotto was in line to host this year's SERA, but declined due to lack of participation by its members.
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Re: 2011 Sera Cave Carnival

Postby jlillest » Jan 11, 2011 10:14 pm

The Smoky Mtn Grotto passed the torch at the last SERA WBM, which should've been plenty of time for the next on the list to pick up the ball and run with it. Our decision was partly based on being burnt out from leading a recent SERA, setting up a SERA in the middle of WNS coming to TN, and, as you mentioned, having too few people to dedicate to the planning process.

We had discussed planning a SERA at the TOTM facility as a safe fall-back to putting the time into finding a suitable site on the north end of the Cumberland Plateau but felt that it'd be a cop-out to plan a spring-time TAG Fall Cave-in.

Blame who you wish, but we gave fair warning.

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Re: 2011 Sera Cave Carnival

Postby CaverScott » Feb 11, 2011 12:13 pm

Anyone have current news? :shrug:
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Re: 2011 Sera Cave Carnival

Postby mgmills » Feb 12, 2011 9:57 am

jlillest wrote:The Smoky Mtn Grotto passed the torch at the last SERA WBM, which should've been plenty of time for the next on the list to pick up the ball and run with it. Our decision was partly based on being burnt out from leading a recent SERA, setting up a SERA in the middle of WNS coming to TN, and, as you mentioned, having too few people to dedicate to the planning process.

We had discussed planning a SERA at the TOTM facility as a safe fall-back to putting the time into finding a suitable site on the north end of the Cumberland Plateau but felt that it'd be a cop-out to plan a spring-time TAG Fall Cave-in.

Blame who you wish, but we gave fair warning.

-Jon


If Smoky Mountain passed on the event at the 2010 Winter Business Meeting, the blame (which is a pretty strong word) would lie with the SERA officers for not contacting other grottoes on the order of refusal list. Just my opinion of course. I have served as a SERA officer in the past so I know how the process works.

BTW, What I was told by one of the officers at the TAG Fall Cave-In did not indicate the Smokey Mountain refused at the WBM.

No matter. . . the end result is no "full fledged" SERA in 2011.

It would be nice to have a date for the campout though . . . some folks who work jobs that involve weekend work might want to know for planning purposes.
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Re: 2011 Sera Cave Carnival

Postby cavergirl » Feb 16, 2011 2:26 pm

mgmills wrote: the blame (which is a pretty strong word) would lie with the SERA officers for not contacting other grottoes on the order of refusal list.


blame is a pretty strong word.

The SERA officers sent messages to grottoes/IOs on the order of refusal list. some refused, some never responded, some grottoes don't exist anymore.
here is the list.
http://www.caves.org/region/sera/carnoref.htm
I believe Birmingham is planning to do it in 2012.
if any of the grottoes between SMG and Birmingham want to step up to the plate, I am sure the officers would love to hear from them.

The officers are scrambling to put something together, but hey, this is all volunteer. They all have busy schedules.
The SERA winter business meeting is March 19, I am sure an announcement will be made then.
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Re: 2011 Sera Cave Carnival

Postby mgmills » Feb 17, 2011 9:33 am

cavergirl wrote:
mgmills wrote: the blame (which is a pretty strong word) would lie with the SERA officers for not contacting other grottoes on the order of refusal list.


blame is a pretty strong word.

The SERA officers sent messages to grottoes/IOs on the order of refusal list. some refused, some never responded, some grottoes don't exist anymore.
here is the list.
http://www.caves.org/region/sera/carnoref.htm
I believe Birmingham is planning to do it in 2012.
if any of the grottoes between SMG and Birmingham want to step up to the plate, I am sure the officers would love to hear from them.

The officers are scrambling to put something together, but hey, this is all volunteer. They all have busy schedules.
The SERA winter business meeting is March 19, I am sure an announcement will be made then.



Lynn Chrys, I used the word "blame" because Jon used it in his post that I was responding to. I commented it was a strong word. . . . I am a member of B'ham Grotto and am 99% sure they were not told until the fall of 2010 that Smoky Mtn and all others on the had passed on the event.. . .

(NOTE: change of name above on 3/3/11 - the above statement should have been to Chrys not Lynn. I got batgirl and cavegirl confused. This was just pointed out to me in a post on 3/2/11 which I just read a few minutes ago - Martha)

That said. . . finding a host has been a "headache" for the SERA Secretary/Treasurer for years. That officer is tasked with contacting grottos on the list to host. . . the problem is that grottos usually don't refuse right away. . . they talk about it and "hem and haw" for months before saying "no we don't want to do it" . . . now that B'ham is hosting for 2012, SERA needs to be working on a host for 2013.

My opinion is that when a grotto is asked to host they should be given a deadline of one month to respond. If they don't respond affirmatively they the next group in line should be contacted. The person asking knows who is likely to refuse and if several groups likely to refuse are in line together several should be asked at once. Just my opinion of course.

I know with the recent Sewanee Mountain Grotto SERA in 2010 the grotto knew for at least 18 months that they were going to host the event. Hosting a SERA is not something a group wants to take on at short notice.

Not "blaming" anyone. . .I'm just sayin' . . .

Hopefully, something will be announced at the WBM. I do know that since the early 2000's there have been ongoing discussions at the SERA WBM about the problems with getting someone to host the event. It is a big task for small groups. A few years back a co event was hosted combining SERA and VAR. That worked out OK but in order to get a location good for both groups it was not centrally located for either group. . . There are no easy answers. . . . hosting an event is a big time commitment and can be a financial burden for a small group.
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Re: 2011 Sera Cave Carnival

Postby tncaver » Feb 17, 2011 11:43 am

Putting a time limit on grottoes for the hosting SERA question is a good idea. I think perhaps grottoes should also join together to host the event. Rather than putting all of the burden on one grotto, why not have the SERA event hosted by two three or even four grottoes if necessary. That would provide more manpower
to get the job done and also spread out and possibly reduce any risk involved with putting on the event. Just sayin.... :woohoo:
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Re: 2011 Sera Cave Carnival

Postby mgmills » Feb 17, 2011 12:59 pm

tncaver wrote:Putting a time limit on grottoes for the hosting SERA question is a good idea. I think perhaps grottoes should also join together to host the event. Rather than putting all of the burden on one grotto, why not have the SERA event hosted by two three or even four grottoes if necessary. That would provide more manpower
to get the job done and also spread out and possibly reduce any risk involved with putting on the event. Just sayin.... :woohoo:


There are no SERA rules prevent co hosting.

Committees have been discussing how to encourage grottos to host SERA Cave Carnival since the early 2000's . . . if you go to the SERA website http://www.caves.org/region/sera/ and read the minutes of previous meetings you will see this discussed. There was also a survey done a couple of years ago about SERA Cave Carnival. Not sure the results were very conclusive of anything though.

Bottom line is very few grottos are hosting. Birmingham hosted in 2005 and is now hosting again in 2012. Prior to 2005 B'ham hosted in 1996. Prior to 1996 it was 1985. If you do the math you will see the years between hosting are getting shorter and shorter. Even the "larger" grottos will burn out on hosting if something doesn't change.

There are lots of issues involved with hosting.

Looking forward to hearing about plans for this summer's "campout"! :grin: :grin:
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Re: 2011 Sera Cave Carnival

Postby rchrds » Feb 18, 2011 7:30 am

Don't know if I should post this, as I have an inside line, but The cave carnival IS still happening- it IS going to back to basics, it might be at Maureen Handlers, folks from all over, including the Nashville Grotto, will be taking care of the details, and it is later than usual, and this is the fuzzy part for me, but I thought I heard June. I am by far not any sort of authority, I am in Afghanistan, so take this all with a grain of salt.

But what I can say for sure, is nobody stepped up to the plate. Point fingers all you want, but unless it's being held in your back yard, you didn't step up. It looks like the next few years are covered (thanks all) but this one sort of slipped through the cracks. If you want to help make this SERA a success, email your SERA leadership and ask them what you can do for them, not what are they doing for you.

I bet you'll have a much better time, and learn a whole bunch of new names sitting the registration table! :)

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