Caves on a Topo

[bigalpha]

So, I got some topo's of the area around where I live. Given only a topo, can you deduce where cave entrances are most likely to be? e.g. at the beginning of a stream? Are there guidelines to something like that?

[Scott McCrea]

Ah, I wish it were that easy. But, yes. You can deduce where a cave is likely to be. Knowledge of the local geology and geography also helps. It's rare that you just stumble into the woods and find a cave. You usually stumble upon a cave after lots of research, trial and error, talking to locals, visiting the area's known caves, talking to cavers familiar with the area. Even then, sometimes it's better to just tape the topo to the wall, close your eyes and throw a dart at it. Mother Nature has been known to hide her good stuff.

[bigalpha]

So, what kind of stuff should you look for on a topo to help identify areas that would have the best chance of finding a cave(s)?

[ian mckenzie]

Here in the Cdn Rockies it is not as helpful to use topos to find caves, because glaciation has changed the original drainage patterns that existed when the caves were forming. As a result, many of our best caves are located in topographically illogical places (middle of cliffs, that sort of thing) altho locating high-altitude karst plateaus on topo sheets can lead you to alot of surviving, but blocked, shafts... Sometimes you can locate resurgences on topos, but ours tend to be buried beneath till on the valley floors.

[bigalpha]

So, topographically, caves are located at the base of cliffs; near resurgences, etc...

[Lynn]

Even then, sometimes it's better to just tape the topo to the wall, close your eyes and throw a dart at it. Mother Nature has been known to hide her good stuff.

For Petes Sake someone has discovered my dart method!

[Scott McCrea]

So, what kind of stuff should you look for on a topo to help identify areas that would have the best chance of finding a cave(s)?

There is a lot to look for. Too much to just list. Most of it comes from experience. But there may be another way to help you out, and have some fun keyboard caving at the same time. Find an area where you think there may be a cave. Tell us how to find it on Topozone.com. We will take a look and give you some input about the location and its potential.

[Cheryl Jones]

BigA -- Come to an NSS Convention and take the 'Speleology for Cavers" course. It covers a bit of everything having to do with caves, and the part on geology and speleogenesis might give you some insight into where to hunt for caves.

Cheryl

[hewhocaves]

bigalpha... topos can only help to a certain degree. Eventually, you do have to walk the actual ridge. Aerial photgraphs, used in conjunction with topos are helpful, as are geological maps. But all that will do is narrow down the search some, and the cave entrance might still be in a tiny sinkhole in the middle of a field.

[barcelonacvr]

I found a karst area by walking,walking and walking some more.The Topo showed all the sinking streams I found as being surface flow.They can be a good help but they are a very small part of the big picture when hunting.I find air phot's to be a lot more productive to narrow down walk areas.

[bigalpha]

Scott -

I'll definitely do that! Just gotta find some time between Chemistry, Geomorphology, and the stupid tests we have to take :(

Cheryl-

I'll sure try like all hell-fire to get out to a convention.....but life is so crazy and unpredictable, I can only do my best!

I didn't think that using a topo was a foolproof method - but I just didn't know how helpful it could be, and how to use topos to supplement cave-finding.

I'll get back to you guys..

[RobVan]

Come to the Grotto meeting. Bring your topo. We will discuss.

Tonight (Feb. 2). 7 PM. Call Jason to maybe carpool.

Robert

[bigalpha]

Unfortunately I cannot make it tonite. Ultimate is tonite. I can probably make it next month - I'll even try to bring a friend!

[Cheryl Jones]

Never mind (I don't see how to delete a post!)

[RobVan]

OK. We have plenty of cave-finding expertise in the Grotto. Gerald Moni is one of the biggest ridge-walkers in TAG, and Joe Douglas also has discovered many caves. Both of them rarely miss a meeting. There are many others. I'm sure it will make a lively discussion for the March meeting.

In the meantime, maybe you can make one of our trips this month. PM your email address to me if you'd like a newsletter.

Robert