River Cave in Indiana, what to wear?

[Lava]

If I remember correctly, isn't Endless Cave a through trip?

[Grandpa Caver]

If I remember correctly, isn't Endless Cave a through trip?

Nope. Only one entrance.

[batrotter]

Are The water in Indiana is cold right now. The same temp all year but it feels colder now.

This is not true. Cave air temps beyond the entrance or air exchange zones staywithin a degree or two all year, but someplace like Indiana where the water moves freely in and out of the cave in a matter of days or weeks, cave water is colder in the winter and warmer in the summer, depending on local above ground precipitation. A rush of snowmelt or melted sleet or rain falling when the outside air temp is high 30s/40s is going to be much colder than the pulse of water during a 90+ July thunderstorm. Water temperature is moderated by moving through the zone of constant temperature of the rock, but flow goes much too fast in Indiana to totally equilibrate.

Wear those long johns and try to stay dry!

OK, I haven't heard that before but makes sense. In fact, I've always thought the water was colder in the winter but have been told otherwise. Now, I got a reason to whine more in the winter. Hah!

[batrotter]

I asked this in my first post but it didn't get answered: does it make any sense to wear long underwear under the wet suit? Seems like it might help you with constant in and out - it would basically mean storing more water under the suit, but would mean heating up more water - what do you think?

I was thinking, I could wear my North Face Hyvent snowboarding pants over the wetsuit if I have to - they should really kill the water flow past my legs, but I don't want to mess them up crawling.

I wear polypros under my wetsuit. They tend to cut down on the chafing. If you're doing a lot of crawling and moving around, the backs of my knees get chafed without polypros. I tend to get too so I like the extra padding, even though wet.

[JGossett]

River Cave is one of my favorite Indiana caves and I have been in it numerous times. I always swim in. All I have ever wore is a wetsuit with a cavesuit overtop. The water always feels extremely cold at first but you quickly get used to it. You will get very warm with the wetsuit once you exit the water and get to the back of the cave but you will get cooled off as soon as you get back to the water upon leaving. Be careful and enjoy the trip.

[Billy]

Theresa is absolutely right about water temperatures. Water flowing in a karstic fractured-flow environment is moderated by rock contact, but seasonal climate is a dominant influence. Ground-water temperatures in slower-moving water in glacial deposits (especially deeper) and bedrock can approach equilibrium, however.

[caverdoc]

invertedflight
did you have a good trip in your wet cave? I was in a wet one today in MO and wore polypro under a nylon caving suit. Water wasn't too bad, only got wet to my janglies.
Dr J

[invertedflight]

Hi all,

Just got finished cleaning off my gear. And taking a shower, although I managed to use all the hot water washing stuff so I had to take a cold shower...

Everything went very well as far as equipement goes. You guys got me so worked up with your warnings that I brought tons of extra clothes with and even hulled some of it into the cave with me just in case. I ended up wearing just my 3/4mm wetsuit, some light nylon pants, a polypro t-shirt, my 7/5mmm wetshoes, and my 1.5mm neoprene gloves. I've never been warmer in a cave, in fact I was dripping with sweat about 20 minutes in.

It was near freezing outside but the cave temp was over 50 degrees(F). My wet shoes sealed really well and must have taken at least a minute to fill with water. Walking right into the water waist deep I could barely feel the cold as the water seeped in so slowly.

The boat wasn't in too bad a shape. It looked a little over 4ft wide but fit through the smallest spot with inches on each side to spare. The 6 of us were able to go all at once; carefully positioned to keep the air evenly distributed in the tubes. I jumped out and pulled the boat through any water that was chest level or lower, which turned out to be a good portion of the run. In fact, I found that there's only something like 50ft of water that's over my head; everywhere else you could walk if you so desired. On our way back out of the cave I said heck with the boat and went with a buggy board; realizing how slow that was I ditched it and just swam. I got to the entrance so fast that I swam back to harass the guys on the boat. If I went again, I'd probably wouldn't take anything but my backpack which can serve as a flotation device if needed. Even with the water hitting my neck I was still plenty warm.

Beyond the water part was a bit of a dissapointment. We only spent about 4 hours in the cave, but we had planned for about 14 hours. We came to a point where we couldn't find anyway through. There was a standard go high or low option and neither were passable, so we either missed something, or that part has caved in. It looked like a large chunk of the wall had fallen out (this is on the high route, I didn't personally see the low route) - there was a big peice of the wall missing and lots of mud and loose rock plus some large rocks jammed into what looked to be a safe passage. In a different part of the cave some of the other guys recognized a passage that had changed due to some rocks falling/moving.

With our River trip cut short and not quite enough time to go as deep into Dorsey as we'd like we went and played in Endless for a while. There were more bats in there then I've ever seen before - thousands in one litle area.

Worst part of the trip: having fresh cuts on both my palms - one from opening a pack of batteries (you know that sharp plastic?), and the other from screwing around with my cat until I got a good deep bite.

Best part of the trip: getting pulled over for speeding, getting a warning, then having the trooper write down (on the back of the warning) the phone number of a fellow trooper who knows a lot about the caves in the area.

[caverdoc]

Alright, another good caving experience! Glad to see you clean your gear before yourself, that's what I do unless I have a ton of stuff. Washed my vertical rig last night but the rest can wait for today. I've got some galvanized maillons that will rust if I don't attend to them!
For wet caves, I don't think anybody mentioned the inner tube buoy trick or using an empty milk jug to float your cave pack.
Dr J

[Grandpa Caver]

Glad to hear your trip went well. Please excuse me if I made the cave sound worse than it actually is but I always do that when advising someone whose abilities, experience or gear, I know nothing about. Always better to error on the side of caution I say.

Sounds like you did indeed reach the end of the cave. It's actually a collapsed entrance. Very unstable looking but it's been that way a very long time!

[invertedflight]

I put a dry sack inside my backpack and keep as much air inside of it as possible so it will float well ;).

[invertedflight]

Really? A couple people in my group talked to a guy who said he'd gone 7 miles in; I know we didn't go that far.

[invertedflight]

Really? A couple people in my group talked to a guy who said he'd gone 7 miles in; I know we didn't go that far.

[Scott McCrea]

... or using an empty milk jug to float your cave pack.

The other option is to use a nice, waterproof caving pack. Fill it with air, stick it under your chest while floating.

[Grandpa Caver]

Really? A couple people in my group talked to a guy who said he'd gone 7 miles in; I know we didn't go that far.

Total surveyed length: 3,483 ft. Four hours sounds about right. I kinda wondered how you might have expected a 14 hour trip. When I take the scouts I always plan on Endless or one of the smaller caves in the area to finish out the day.