claustrophobia and caving

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claustrophobia and caving

Postby Sara » Apr 5, 2008 1:48 am

Hello cavers,
I am starting this topic in search of advice in how to to deal with being severely claustrophobic, and still being able to cave. My husband is a seasoned caver, and loves it so much that sometimes I think he caves more than he sleeps; however, I went into a cave with him one time, 3 years ago, 3 months after having our daughter, and I was so scared that I was out of that cave faster than he was and lets just say he was much better shape than I was. I never thought I would be able to crawl up a six foot wall like that, but I did, and even my husband was amazed. I felt like I was going to die there, like there was an evil, and to some that may sound absurd, but I felt like I just had to get out of there. Since then, I have been in only one cave, but it was what my husband called a "show cave" and it had man-made paths running through it. Even then, I was uneasy, but tried to hide it, as to not scare my daughter. When I finally got out of that cave I felt like a weight had been lifted and when we got to the car I was shaking and crying. We were there with some fellow cavers and they seemed to understand, and after all the kids were in bed, they brought me a very needed drink to calm my nerves! :woohoo: But, I don't know what to do. I want to be able to take part in my husbands favorite hobby, more like a lifestyle for him, but I cannot seem to shake the fear, and it feels like it may be hurting our relationship, so I was hoping that someone might have some advice for me... :shrug:
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Re: claustrophobia and caving

Postby Squirrel Girl » Apr 5, 2008 4:54 am

Well, first off, make sure you don't wind up needing a marriage counselor more than a cure for claustrophobia! :grin:

If you feel like you *have* to go in caves, it's not gonna work nearly as well as if you *want* to go in caves.

It's "normal" to be claustrophobic in the sense that probably more people have that fear, than don't. It's just that your average caver doesn't have that problem.

Personally, I'm scared of heights, so I understand the somewhat irrational, but very real, fear. Certainly for me, lots of exposure (no pun intended) to pits, builds up a temporary immunity for me.

My guess is that your phobia is so high that you might have to take it very slowly in an introduction to caves. Frequent trips not very far into a cave might be a way to approach the problem. I'd also see if you can't find some women to go caving with, at least to start. There are funny dynamics between spouses. And while two people may love each other a lot, their different approaches/ideas/skills can sometimes make the learning experience harder for one of them (oftentimes the wives)--which is something we deal with regularly in mountain biking with women who are scared of rocky trails, and the like.

And finally, you might actually consider professional help for your phobia. There are techniques that can help. Good luck!
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Re: claustrophobia and caving

Postby wendy » Apr 5, 2008 11:18 am

you can be part of his hobby of cavibng without having to go caving. If I had an significant other who didn't enjoy being underground I'd be happy with just having them camp with me and attending events.
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Re: claustrophobia and caving

Postby Sara » Apr 5, 2008 11:57 am

I do go to cave meetings and stuff like that with him, but the truth of the matter is that he wants me to be a caver, and I would like to be one, but it just scares me. I do think that finding a female friend to go with me would probably take the edge off, considering my husband is a military man, and his expectations are a bit more than I can manage sometimes. My physical abilities are not near what his are, but I would like to find aomeone a bit more patient to start caving with so that maybe I could work up to being at his speed... thanks for the advice!
~Sara~
Courage is not the lack of fear. It is acting in spite of it.
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Re: claustrophobia and caving

Postby wendy » Apr 5, 2008 12:52 pm

finding other girls to cave with should not be hard, the caving event i went to this past weekend had more girls attending than guys i think. I started out as a cave diver before I started doing the 'dry' caves, and in cave divnig there is a rule that any diver can end a dive at any time for any reason, no questions asked, so I hope this will carry over to the dry caving for you, if anytime you feel uncomfortable don't hesitate to say "you know i think i would like to leave the cave'

what are the caves like where you live. Here in florida they can be small and tight, but up in TAG (Tenn, Ala, GA) some of the caves are HUGE! Maybe you need to come out this way for the TAG fall cave-in in October.
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Re: claustrophobia and caving

Postby Ralph E. Powers » Apr 5, 2008 2:13 pm

I've lead dozens upon dozens of beginner trips. Had to deal with the "suddenly" claustrophobic to the "now you tell me!" and the "gradual build up, I didn't realize that I was" types.
Claustrophobia is a fear that starts in the mind, it takes time and effort and a couple of other little tricks to overcome it. For would be cavers, Barbara is right... you got to WANT to go not HAVE to go. Having to go is doing so reluctantly and nothing you do will make that fear go away or even dissipate just enough for you to try and enjoy what you're doing. Wanting to go is your willingness and desire on a positive bent. But that little fear still creeps in and if allowed will run amok til it paralyzes you.
Study a bit of geology. Get an idea of how strong that "soft limestone" really is. Realize that it took millions of years for some of the passages you're in to form. Look at the passages you're in, solid and they're not going anywhere. They're not moving in closer to you. If they're 7-9 inches wide when you go in they're going to be 7-9 inches wide when you go out. They'll be 7-9 inches the next time you go in, even if it's 20 years later.
Keep busy, get your mind off where you are at the moment. Survey projects help keep the mind focused on the instruments and readings. Doing clean up projects get you looking for the elusive bits of trash here and there, or scrubbing the graffiti off the walls... which are usually found in BIG passages :grin: . If you can get in, you can get out, simple as that. Been caving for over 30 years and gotten stuck maybe three times and I'm here at my computer writing about it. And no, I didn't go caving once every 10 years and got stuck each time. :laughing:
Pay attention to the pretties that you see and admire them, realizing that you're one of a relative few to have seen them.
Your husband should be more understanding I think. Picking and choosing the caves you both visit with care. Do they have large passages with little or no crawls? No narrow slot canyons? There are caves like that usually in every state that has caves. Go visit them for short periods and extend the length of time each time you go. Gradually build your way up to it... or IN to it.

One lady I went caving with, turned out to be severely claustrophobic. We were doing a bat count for the NPS in a closed cave. Her husband and another ranger were in the lead of a 1000+ foot long twisty and sometime tight crawl. He asked his wife and I to hang back a bit while he and his buddy went to check on some other lead. We sat there for a bit then I noticed tale-tell signs of increasing nervousness. Glancing at the walls and trying to see everywhere at once, humming to herself, breathing just a bit faster... Hmm... ohh kay... "Hey Cristy, tell me something... how can you tell bat guano from rat?" She gives me a weird look and then explains... "interesting... also another thing I wondered... do mother bats always leave their babies on the walls when they go out to forage or do they take their babies with them?" 10 minutes later I learned a lot about the maternity care bats receive from a very animated bat expert. 5 minutes after that her husband called to us to catch up. Wish I had a camera to catch the look on her face as she realized what I was doing. :big grin:

Taking your mind off the situation goes a long way. Keep moving in those tight passages will keep your mind focused on getting through there and what body part to move next.

And yeah... you don't HAVE to go underground to be a caver.
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Re: claustrophobia and caving

Postby Squirrel Girl » Apr 5, 2008 5:35 pm

Good points by Wendy and Ralph. I had a boyfriend a long time ago who had no interest in *going* caving. But he did like to hear my stories from the trips I went on. Worked for me!

Sometimes it's good to have separate hobbies--it gives you something to talk about. I've had a relationship that got stale because it always involved talking about the same things. Urk.

However, don't let me discourage you if you are really interested in caving. By all means--the rest of us thing it's great, and you might take to it, if started properly. I know several rock climbers who took up their hobby specifically because they were scared of heights.

BTW, what hobby of yours has your husband taken up to spend more time with you? (Don't respond to that--it's meant as a thinking point).
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Re: claustrophobia and caving

Postby Sara » Apr 5, 2008 11:15 pm

You have a good point... But I would like to try caving, for my husband and for myself. My husband and I are complete opposites, and for some things that is good, but in that same thought it would be nice to share something with him. I am a city girl through and through, and he is well not a city boy, and so finding something in common is hard. One less thing to be afraid of would be good, and the experience alone would be good, too, so I want to, but I have to tell you, what I feel in a cave is scary. This is probably a bad analogy, but it feels like I am being haunted. Like someone is watching me,(and that was even before we watched The Decent!) and it gets so hard to breathe I can barely move. I guess I feel safety in numbers, but even when we went in the second cave, we were with 4 other people and I still panicked. I want to cave, but I need to figure out a way to not be so afraid of it...
~Sara~
Courage is not the lack of fear. It is acting in spite of it.
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Re: claustrophobia and caving

Postby ek » Apr 5, 2008 11:30 pm

What are some specific positive things that make you want to go caving? If you really do want to go caving (rather than feeling that you have a duty do do so, or wanting to have gone caving), then you should be able to come up with some things about being in a cave that attract you. Then maybe you could focus on those things when in caves.

The other thing that comes to mind is, canyoning is a sport somewhat similar to caving in a number of respects--I have heard it described by someone who is both a caver and a canyoner as "like caving but with no roof." Where you live, I would imagine that there are numerous canyons to be explored. Perhaps this is something you and your husband could share. If he hasn't done it before, then you'd both even be starting out on what is closer to equal ground.

My husband and I are complete opposites, and for some things that is good, but in that same thought it would be nice to share something with him. I am a city girl through and through, and he is well not a city boy, and so finding something in common is hard.

I don't want to be asking deeply personal questions about your marriage, but it seems to me that you and he must have encountered this sort of thing before and came up with quite satisfactory solutions at the time, considering that the two of you decided to marry. Did your husband take up caving after you were married? Has he become obsessed with caving to the point of not being interested in anything else? I have never thought of caving as something that would be done obsessively or as an addiction, but I suppose it could prevent one from seeing one's other priorities in life. (Or, perhaps, some people could live their lives by and for caving entirely, for instance by being professional project cavers doing long expeditions constantly. Or perhaps one could be independently wealthy and devote one's life to exploring the world's most exciting and challenging cave environments, sort of like a Lara Croft of caving. But for most people, caving is one part, perhaps a significant part, perhaps the most significant part, but still just one part of life.)

I'm just wondering whether or not this is a caving problem of the sort that has a caving solution...
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Re: claustrophobia and caving

Postby Sara » Apr 6, 2008 1:17 am

Our relationship is good, but it comes down to wanting to spend more time with him, and have more in common, grow together, and i just want to have that ability, we share many things, but I want to share more, like in most marriages, i want to grow closer....
~Sara~
Courage is not the lack of fear. It is acting in spite of it.
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Re: claustrophobia and caving

Postby ek » Apr 6, 2008 1:42 am

Of course--I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. What I was wondering is if he has become obsessed with caving. I didn't know any good way to ask that, so I asked it in a bad way.

Do you find his presence when caving something that makes it easier or harder for you to overcome your fears of the underground environment? In addition to caving with others, e.g. women, you might consider caving, some of the time, in his absence, to see how that goes. Once you're more comfortable, of course, I'd imagine that most of the caving you'd do would be together (unless your skills surpass his and enable you to visit more challenging environments than he's ready for).
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Re: claustrophobia and caving

Postby Squirrel Girl » Apr 6, 2008 4:13 am

Caves are not haunted. Plain and simple. I've been caving since 1973 (though not so much recently), and not once did I encounter "haunting." I spent 18 days underground on a big expedition and nothing. Nothing but the joy of exploration (and the exhaustion of the effort).

You've got a huge organization here that can verify this.

The problem for you is to 1) Realize intellectually that that is true, and 2) Deal with the issue with more logic and less emotion and fear.
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Re: claustrophobia and caving

Postby daj » Apr 6, 2008 5:30 am

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Re: claustrophobia and caving

Postby Sara » Apr 6, 2008 9:34 am

It is not that i think caves are haunted, i was trying to decribe the fear i feel... i guess that was a bad choice of words, but no i dont think they are haunted...
~Sara~
Courage is not the lack of fear. It is acting in spite of it.
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Re: claustrophobia and caving

Postby Ralph E. Powers » Apr 6, 2008 10:15 am

Sara wrote:It is not that i think caves are haunted, i was trying to decribe the fear i feel... i guess that was a bad choice of words, but no i dont think they are haunted...

Heh actually it's a rather interesting choice of words to tell the truth. I get that feeling myself once in a while... they're haunted. But not scary :yikes: BOO! type hauntings or even anything evil. I dunno mebbe I have a bit of Addams family in me but I find the thought comforting.

Bats watch you for sure when they're awake. Other cavers watch you as well. So you are being watched, and it's okay.

I've a story from a friend about a particular haunting incident they experienced in a cave. But not here.
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