Could China have a cave longer than Mammoth?

Caves and caving, beginning caving, joining the NSS, etc.

Moderator: Moderators

Could China have a cave longer than Mammoth?

Postby tmazanec1 » Sep 6, 2014 11:30 am

I have requested every library book in the CLEVNET system on caves. There are a lot, but almost all are Children's books. Anyway, one has a global map of Karst regions, and I see China has a huge one. And another mentioned that China has done little cave exploring.
Could the world's longest be there?
tmazanec1
Occasional Poster
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Sep 6, 2005 3:01 pm
  

Re: Could China have a cave longer than Mammoth?

Postby Martin Sluka » Sep 6, 2014 12:42 pm

tmazanec1 wrote:Could the world's longest be there?

There is a cave named Botovskaya near Lena River. That is labyrinthic cave system developed in 9-12 m thick layer of limestones which is known up to 60 km now. But the potential there - only discover and survey - is up to 40 000 km.
http://www2.gli.cas.cz/Departments/pale ... boty04.htm
http://www.biogeosciences.net/10/6115/2 ... -2013.html
http://invenio.nusl.cz/record/155881
User avatar
Martin Sluka
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 380
Joined: Mar 17, 2006 11:28 am
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
Name: Martin Sluka
NSS #: 29010
  

Re: Could China have a cave longer than Mammoth?

Postby John Lovaas » Sep 7, 2014 9:25 am

Martin-

There's nothing in those links that discusses the geology and hydrology of the cave, or anything else that might give a clue to the cave's potential. How do you draw the conclusion that there may be 40,000km of passages.

I'm confident that the longest cave in the world will be in the Yucatan very soon. A simple matter of diligent survey of upper level dry passages in the world's largest underwater cave systems.
imbecile sheepherder.
User avatar
John Lovaas
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 590
Joined: Sep 6, 2005 9:10 am
Location: Woodstock, Illinois
  

Re: Could China have a cave longer than Mammoth?

Postby Martin Sluka » Sep 7, 2014 10:14 am

John Lovaas wrote:How do you draw the conclusion that there may be 40,000km of passages.


Not me. Somewhere in articles about that cave is simple math - area divided by m of passage per km2. And the result is about 40000 km. This cave is quite famous for its unique geology. The exploration is extremely difficult because of the access to the entrances.
User avatar
Martin Sluka
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 380
Joined: Mar 17, 2006 11:28 am
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
Name: Martin Sluka
NSS #: 29010
  

Re: Could China have a cave longer than Mammoth?

Postby John Lovaas » Sep 7, 2014 6:22 pm

Well, there is a writeup in Speleogenesis(for those following at home, pg. 282).

The author(Andrej Filippov) mentions a passage density of 136km/km2. That's a number- not an indication of potential.

The bedrock the cave is formed in is dipping 6-8 degrees to the northeast. The author has the waters that formed the cave moving down-dip, eventually reaching springs on the Lena River.

The cave is bounded on three sides by valleys that are about 2km from the entrance. There is high ground to the northwest, but given the dip, I'd be surprised if the cave had much development to the northwest- unless you have a more recent map; the Speleogenesis map is from 1992.

With the quoted passage density, you'll need 294km2 of Ust'-Kost uninterrupted by valleys. A quick check of the geologic map on pg. 283 makes that seem pretty unlikely- unless they've got passage going 10km northwest of the entrance. Then you're in high ground- but given the dip(and the accepted genesis of the cave), it seems unlikely.

I'm surprised a scientist would attach a number to the amount of unexplored passage in a given cave; that's normally something commercial cave guides do to entertain visitors.
imbecile sheepherder.
User avatar
John Lovaas
NSS Hall Of Fame Poster
 
Posts: 590
Joined: Sep 6, 2005 9:10 am
Location: Woodstock, Illinois
  

Re: Could China have a cave longer than Mammoth?

Postby arizonaowl » Sep 16, 2014 11:47 am

We do have people who keep pushing the envelope, and will do so, until, mother nature (their age) stops them. Thank God for such people, we need them to keep the caving spirit alive!
Regards, Al Copley, 20845
arizonaowl
Infrequent Poster
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Sep 15, 2014 12:51 pm
NSS #: 20845
Primary Grotto Affiliation: NAG
  


Return to Caving General Discussion and Questions Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

cron